To be confused by 'high earners' complaining about taxes?

[tutuland]

So high earners pay lots of tax. The top 20% pay for 70% or whatever the numbers are.

But (beyond printing more money) isn't the money there high income people make just coming from the paying public? No matter who you work for, your company's profit is just an accumulation of normal people paying for things.

So ultimately, isn't it all our money anyway? Just beacuse the game is rigged and you get paid 400K for management whatever, it doesn't mean you're more deserving of that money than anyone.

Ha!

But no. That wouldn't be fair on the top 10%, would it? (Fairness can be tricky, huh?)

It's not unfair that I'm cleverer than you, as you suggest. It would only be unfair if I misused that advantage. Which I'm not going to do.

Issue is with low wage system. We resent paying more tax as we use private school, mostly private healthcare, and in addition pay council tax, road tax etc. So how do we benefit from paying a higher rate tax than those paying a lower rate?

Yes exactly. If it’s that awful being a higher rate tax payer, and everyone below them has it better, they could take a lower paying job. It’s much easier to move down the career ladder than up it.

But where do you draw the line. My marginal income tax rate (Scotland) is 67%. This feels unfair. I have high expenses (kids with disability, local authority unwilling to help with a suitable education so we pay for private). Am I paying enough? Should I be happy to pay more?

I think she was being sarcastic?

I think it's a bit more complicated than that, to be honest. The old 'nature vs nurture' thing does get a bit tricky. I think I was probably born lazy, rather than choosing it. Perhaps you are different.

But anyway, it seems you'd be in favour of taxing unearned income (interest, dividends etc.) pretty highly? That's a start, at least, I suppose.

They just don't want to be punished for their success and want to be allowed this enjoy what they've produced.

So you’re against partially lobotomising the top 10% of children? What a surprise, the 90% don’t matter!! For the few not the many eh?

I’m not sure anyone complains about wanting less money? Just wanting to keep more of the money they earned?

I have done both physical and intellectual work over the years. I enjoyed working in hospitality making sure customers had a good time. I also loved working in corporate strategic investment and marketing. But long term, it was more satisfying and definitely financially more rewarding to work at C suite level. Plus most people were nicer and more interesting in boardrooms.

The ability to get along with people is part of why people become high earners.

That's true @LastMohecian . Over the years, I've known quite a few forces people, and it's almost invariably the case that the more senior they are, the more congenial. Unpleasant people don't get promoted.

I doubt it is. Even so, we aren't happy with how much we have to pay. We'd like to keep more of what we earn. It's only natural.

You really are being a total dick.

yep…

I may be confusing you with the person who is a GP receptionist. Apologies if so. I'm actually quite happy with what I pay.

But higher earners also spend money - in shops, cafes, gyms and everywhere else. So you could argue that we’re paying people’s wages there?

At any rate the issue is not paying tax, it’s paying proportionally a lot more tax for the same or less services ie 40-45% tax and no benefits, cheaper childcare etc.

I’m not a higher earner through any kind of privilege or advantage, I put myself through a professional degree as a mature student and I do a really difficult and stress job with a high proportion of antisocial hours including nights. I am happy to pay tax but is it fair that I have to pay more than double the amount proportionally that lower income workers pay?

I'm taking about our household income. We aren't happy with the high levels of taxation.

Ah. When you said how about you live off your income and I live off mine, I assumed we were speaking about the income we actually earned and paid tax on, one tax payer to another as it were.

I am not saying everyone that earns a lot deserves it, but surely what you are proposing makes no sense, because we don't live in utopia. For example, why would anyone go through the expense, pain and effort to become an engineer or a surgeon, or any other specialised career if all the money is everyone's anyway? Let's all put minimum effort then shall we?

There have always been skills and attributes that are rarer and more highly sought after than others. It doesn’t matter if you’re a monkey, an indigenous tribesperson or a western capitalist. The concept that everybody’s contribution is equal is patently ridiculous and always has been.

If you are paid very well it generally means that you are highly skilled or highly intelligent. Most people would not be able to do highly paid jobs (Those skills might indeed include being able to game the system or fabulous media communication skills, but that also takes intelligence). If the work you do can be done by almost anyone then it’s quite rightly a minimum wage job. To me “fair” is giving everyone as much opportunity possible to fulfil their potential, not making everyone’s outcome equal.

So coming back to tax, no high earners are not paid by society other than in the meaningless general concept that everyone is paid by everyone else. Most high earners do deserve more money, and tax needs to be a societal construct that works for those paying as well as those receiving. I’m happy to pay tax to fund education, police, public healthcare and a safety net for those in difficulty, but many aspects of the welfare state have gone way to far and removed any sense of personal responsibility for your own lifestyle as shown by the OPs posts.

This is the issue with it. I enjoy my job, I enjoy the work but it is difficult work with high stakes and can be a lot of pressure, the work we do impacts the lives of lots of people including vulnerable people. Would I do my current job for the same salary as I did when I worked in a pub while getting my degree? No, I wouldn’t. It wouldn’t be worth it.

It’s not fair that some pay way more into the pot and other avoid doing so by being self employed / fiddling their tax or not working

imho you should get a public service equivalent to the time and money you give to society

a nurse pays tax but also works hard for society so should get priority in doctor appt for to enable them to keep contributing

if you don’t work and don’t pay in then in my opinion you should be back of the queue

however that isn’t how it works

those who code society the most and contribute the least get premium service in my experience forcing those who can to go private and therefore resent the nhs.

there are people who give their time and money to society by work and tax and there are others who do not- but try to squeeze every drop out of the system them complain how ever thing is the systems fault

this is what causes resentment and a harsh political shift to the right

a nurse pays tax but also works hard for society so should get priority in doctor appt for to enable them to keep contributing

Wouldn't the same be true for firefighters, police officers, farmers, etc.? Perhaps it would be better to train and employ more doctors so that more appointments are available.