To be confused by 'high earners' complaining about taxes?

[tutuland]

So high earners pay lots of tax. The top 20% pay for 70% or whatever the numbers are.

But (beyond printing more money) isn't the money there high income people make just coming from the paying public? No matter who you work for, your company's profit is just an accumulation of normal people paying for things.

So ultimately, isn't it all our money anyway? Just beacuse the game is rigged and you get paid 400K for management whatever, it doesn't mean you're more deserving of that money than anyone.

Funny how anything that questions who ends up on top suddenly becomes sixth form debate.

Yet, capitalism pretends to offer participation while locking people out with inequality. It only works for the people with money, influence and power.

My husband is a high earner. Runs a company and to get there had a full time job, part time uni course and a newborn baby on the way. Whilst our friends where living their best early 20’s life going to New York etc. we used our annual leave separately as he would be doing his assignments. To then starting at the bottom of a company, working long hours, sacrificing weekends, going away would still see him checking emails, leaving the pool to take a work call & basically working 2 hours everyday still. Till now made a director, the anxiety, the sleepless nights the clucking, the worry. I do sometimes think was it worth it. To then have the same people enjoying their 20’s making sarky comments about how many holidays we have, how privileged our daughter is to not have uni debt, to the cars we drive etc. it boils my piss because we didn’t do it before. We sacrificed & whilst I appreciate not all hard workers are successful I’d say it’s like winning the lottery & the cost of the ticket is hardwork and sacrifice.

I see so much anger and venom directed towards the high earners. Like how dare they enjoy the fruits of their labour.

DH and I clawed our way up from one of the roughest, most dangerous and more deprived council estates in the country, going to absolutely shocking schools to go to university to earn decent money. We did it with no contacts, no help, no support. Just hard work, determination and taking every opportunity that came our way.

People now whinging that they have it harder, and they can't claw their way up, annoys me. You can. But, if all you do is whinge about how unfair it is, and you don't work hard, then of course you'll never succeed. There were days I didn't want to work full time in a pub whilst going to University, and it was unfair, but I still stuck with it.

Why should I want to contribute to a society, or to people, who spend all their time slagging me off? I did nothing wrong except work hard to be successful, but apparently that's a crime these days...

Capitalism has been the main reason global absolute poverty has fallen.

The Tories, Labour and The Lib Dems all bear some responsibility for the problems that have led up to where we are now. Meaningful damage is meaningful damage regardless of whether it is a bit less damage than what the other lot did.

We’re not getting these things are we though? We’re not getting a good court system etc as too much money is spent pandering to the workshy.

It’s just basic envy wrapped up in virtue signalling.

I agree. A checkout assistant at Aldi, a health tech CEO and a GP should all earn exactly the same amount because people are all equal at the end of the day and everyone would therefore feel happier and more motivated in their exactly-the-same jobs where they can reward themselves and their families by buying exactly the same things as everyone else💘

There are systems for a reason in this world. Economic stability. Interest rates. Growth. It's not all a conspiracy to keep you in little boxes, all right? It's only the miracle of consumer capitalism that means you're not lying in your own shit, dying at 43 with rotten teeth. And a little pill with a chicken on it is not going to change that.

Certainly in my estate a lot on intergenerational poverty comes from an ingrained attitude that success and high wages aren’t for you, you can’t do it, your face doesn’t fit etc whereas the opposite is true. Companies are bending over backwards to widen the social spectrum they recruit from. Kids from rough estates can get recruited straight from school into big 4 accountancy apprenticeships and be fast tracked to high wages in no time but they don’t believe it, because their parents tell them that people like them don’t do that.

It’s learned helplessness and easily available benefits aren’t helping this, they’re hindering. Roll back PIP to severe disability only or force recipients to volunteer full time. 65% of 25 year olds are claiming PIP for mental health conditions, many of which would be far better served by getting a job or getting out and meeting people rather than staring at the walls of their bedroom all day..

100% this. So many people choose not to put any work in but expect to be earning the same as a high earner. Ain’t going to happen!

If you think that's anger and venom you might want to check out the benefits threads. Like, how dare people be ill, disabled, a carer, old, have a child with additional needs, have a low paid job..?
At least high earners can step away from the forum to the comfort and peace of mind their salaries afford them, believing thenselves to be harder working and altogether superior to those with less.
The people being insulted as lazy, despised as scroungers, who have their work disrespected because its poorly paid, their opinions and politics sneered at as 'envy', they have no such compensation.
If 'venom' is directed at high earners, its not typically because of their salary. Many people manage to combine earning a high salary with retaining a social conscience and empathy for others, and the ability to apply critical thinking in order to conclude its really not as straightforward as everyone 'getting off their arses'. It's the ones who don't do this who tend to arouse feelings of anger.
Partly because it's hard to see how someone with such a limited capacity for thought can be performing at a level that justifies their income.

It's not "all our money". When you pay for something it's not your money anymore. Are your wages your employer's money?

This is one of the cringiest threads I've ever read on here with an extremely bitter OP - what's your job @tutuland ?

Ah yes, the old trope that the poor have no access to healthcare in the US. I'm sure you think this is true based on the MN echo chamber or something you read in the Guardian years ago.

In fact, the government provides health cover to 80 million low-income Americans through a program called Medicaid, and it covers prehospital transportation.

https://www.aha.org/fact-sheets/2025-02-07-fact-sheet-medicaid

https://www.emedny.org/ProviderManuals/Transportation/PDFS/Archive/Transportation_Manual_Policy_Section2006-1.pdf

But thanks for perpetuating the misinformation.

So wait a minute, do you not think someone earning £400k a year, who has likely worked extremely hard, taken risks, and made sacrifices to reach that position, could be seen as more deserving of that income than someone who chooses to do nothing and rely purely on benefits? Before anyone moans I am not generalising everyone on benefits but I’m sorry, that person who is making 400k likely does deserve it more than someone who has chosen to do nothing.

Medicaid covers insulin as well.

https://airtalkwireless.com/blog/does-medicaid-cover-insulin

No, she just thinks the 'game is rigged' 😂

One of the reasons I said each state in the USA does healthcare differently

I'm someone else grew up on a relatively rough, tough, deprived council estate (big northern city). Likewise, no contacts, help, etc., etc. Married someone from another council estate in another northern city.

We were both lucky enough to be born clever. So, we went to university, had a good time. (That's when we met.) Travelled the world. Got jobs we enjoyed. Made money gambling on various stock exchanges/financial markets (easy when you know how, perhaps lucky there too (though I suspect not)), enough to set our children up and to not have to work for pay any more. Settled down in a nice house in a nice suburb; children scattered here and there, decent lives all.

Of course I didn't deserve my nice life and lots of money. I was just lucky. Like you, @Thequiveringpossum. And we ought to contribute to society, to other less fortunate people, whether they slag us off or not. We did that in our jobs, for a bit, but that's really not enough.

No-one says you did anything wrong. You were just fortunate to be born the way you are, hard-working and all the rest. Did I do anything wrong? No. (Certainly nothing illegal!) I was just lucky, like you.

Why should you (and I) contribute? You ask. --Because it's the right thing to do. Morality, if you like. Or just call it fairness. You and I both should pay high taxes ... or, failing that, and while we wait for our fellow citizens to see this and make the democratic choice so we have to, we should contribute via charitable donations to help those less fortunate than us. Of course it'd be better to pay tax. But, well, ...

It's only fair.

It is unfair that some people are cleverer than others, at 16 we should test intelligence and partially lobotomise the top 10%. For equality. I bet selfish people with no empathy would complain about that as well!!

I can never blame a disabled person for being disabled. But apart from disability, major health issues and serious catastrophic life issues.. How about my income is mine, yours is yours and we each make do on what we earn.

@andalon you're a better person than I am, because I certainly don't want to be supporting people who can't be bothered and instead of grafting, like I did, spend their time whinging about how unfair things are.

Being hard working isn't something I was 'born with.' It's a choice. Just as being lazy is a choice.

That's fine with me. And if my income is higher than yours, I will continue to pay a higher amount of tax than you towards the things we both need and are better accessed communally due to economies of scale, on the basis that I can afford to do so without struggling financially. Which may not be the case for you.