To be confused by 'high earners' complaining about taxes?

[tutuland]

So high earners pay lots of tax. The top 20% pay for 70% or whatever the numbers are.

But (beyond printing more money) isn't the money there high income people make just coming from the paying public? No matter who you work for, your company's profit is just an accumulation of normal people paying for things.

So ultimately, isn't it all our money anyway? Just beacuse the game is rigged and you get paid 400K for management whatever, it doesn't mean you're more deserving of that money than anyone.

How did you become a high earner?

Yes, yes @TestingDaily. Your husband is highly skilled, works the hardest, deserves the world, and is the bestest.

Your argument isn’t anything new. People always tell themselves these things to justify their actions. Instead of I need your watch as I don’t have one, it’s I need 45% of your income as you appear to have more than me.

This with bells on

As someone who has done both I can honestly say say…gaining my degree was harder than working in the restaurant that I worked in every Friday, Saturday and Sunday (totalling 25hours most weekends)
learning the theory behind, understanding and then performing say “mini plasmid preps” (I will leave you to look that up!) is more challenging than bringing someone their dinner (that I didn’t even cook!) or making a coffee!

So you think a child growing up on the most deprived council estate in Scotland doesn’t support, stable adults, proper services, and guidance to have a fair shot? That they should just rely on attitude and grit? And if they don’t make it out, they’ve somehow failed as children?

Individual resilience exists, sure. But environment shapes opportunity, and that needs stability, mentoring, safety, and taxes for resources.

DNA extraction is not harder than restaurant work. I don't know why you struggled so much, but I have experience in both.

If everyone 'gets off their arse' where will all the extra highly paid jobs come from for them to do? And who will do the low paid ones?
If working hard guarantees high pay, and our system is the 'best way' to get people working harder, why are 20% of us living in poverty?
Why do people with your views always use the phrase 'get off your arse'? (The last is just my personal curiosity)

Ok @tutuland if you insist…it’s all personal really isn’t it. I think the opposite, I don’t know why you would find restaurant work hard…it was piss easy to me, I mean get item, bring to customer, smile and walk away. Take payment etc etc…it’s hardly fucking rocket science!

“I need your watch” is one person taking from another for private use. Tax is a collectively agreed system that funds the systems we all use.

Courts that protect your property rights, roads you use, education that makes sure your employees can read, healthcare that so your employees can be fit enough to work. Police, fire services, national defence etc.

You can think that 45% is too high, that’s a legitimate policy critique. But framing all taxation as envy skips over the fact that wealth is generated within a system that taxes help maintain.

Are you suggesting that we scrap public funding and just let the market decide who survives?

We've been through immense struggles and had to sacrifice many things. I'm not going to post a sob story on MN though.

Having done both, working in McDonald’s is a lot less hard work than university🤣. Well it is if you go to a decent university and do a decent degree. Having worked in a care home, it’s a lot easier than working in a high level managerial role.

I came from a really poor background. My school had higher teenage pregnancy rates. Than exam passes. Yet I worked hard at school, got bullied for it, missed out on the teenage fun/parties, in fact self taught a lot of things. Yes I probably had to work harder than someone in a public school for the same outcome and yes, there are still inequalities that persist but I overcame these for the time I wanted to get to where I wanted. These things are possible. The trouble is, those that aren’t capable/can’t be arsed go round telling others not to bother trying. Just because they failed they want to keep others down to justify their own failure.

No it’s not a level playing field, but that’s life. Either crack on and work with the system to get to where you want or sit there shaking your fist at the sky getting no where. Up to you. But don’t go criticising those who had the nouse to get over it, but the effort in and move on

Sometimes people think academic stuff is harder because they've personally found them harder.

No one asked you sweetie

Ok @tutuland I literally just stated the opposite in a sense…so you found physical work harder? I disagree entirely. End of discussion imo.

Academic stuff isn’t something lots of people can do which is where it gets its value

yes this is capitalism, but no other system provides a better system. All systems will have people who rise to the top. Humans, by their nature are hierarchical creatures. All the different systems do is decide who rises to the top and who doesn’t. There will always be the haves and have nots. Arguably capitalism is one of the best ways to structure the system as it’s easier to split the value tokens of money between all members of the group so everyone can participate in the system to some level. We could have military, religious leaders, manipulators of people (communism) or feudal lords at the top. Much harder to share what they have to split power, and trying to do this, will often cause that system to collapse. Capitalism allows a much greater split of power than say a theocracy.

Your arguments are ones that have run through 6th form common rooms and copies of socialist worker for decades. By the time people hit the real world most people realise how ridiculous the arguments are.

It’s rare skills and ability that dictate value. Most people have the ability to work a night shift in McDonald’s but not to operate on children’s brains or how to structure an IPO.

I ironically work in a knowingly undervalued industry, childcare, I earn very well because I specialized, am willing to work (very long) hours and abroad and do my job very well. I was earning below minimum wage when I started and now can earn up to 200k per year.

So technically anyone could do my work, and have my salary as it’s not a « high-skilled» job, most would likely have the ability to do it, but don’t because they wouldn’t be willing to work the hours I do, live as far away from home as I do for as often as I do it, and sacrifice as much as I do.

My mom actually work in Childcare also, but she doesn’t earn what I do because she chose to have kids first, so has always needed work to work around her, rather than being able work around her work, limiting her earning abilities and pretty much making her dependable on the benefits system from the get go as most childcare related salary isn’t really made to afford 5 kids.

Often, many hard working people would be deserving of higher wages, but they also make choices that stop them from being able to reach those threshold (having children before establishing their career and therefore needing a job that fit their personal schedule for example) or that make them start thinking in term of « is it worth it for me to get back to work after kids if I am going to need to pay X for childcare/in taxes when I could just stay home and get Y from the states? » and many people actually chose not to earn past a certain threshold due to the taxes or loss in benefits.

So, you do have plenty of hard working people stuck in low-paying jobs through not fault of their own in a tough economic market and who do deserve a raise, but you also have a good chunk of the population who chose to do things in the wrong order and become co-dependent of the system because they, for example, want multiple children but earn minimum wage so can’t afford childcare for their children nor really afford their multiple children and therefore are stuck working part time or not at all, and yet begrudge their financial situation on others who made different choices.

Most women would be better off financially if they established themselves FIRST financially and then brought out the new generation but the reality is that still most don’t. I think you now have more high earning women than ever before mainly because now slowly women are either choosing not to have kids (as unaffordable + current climate feels extremely uncertain) or chose to have them much later when they can afford them.

Most of people’s financial situation can be explained either by what they prioritize(d) or how they spend and while there are other compounding factor’s to one’s finances and financial situation and work situation, a lot of the root can be found in those two elements.

So what, this thread is no longer about why high tax payers begrudge paying a high tax and now about who works the hardest so should get more?
By your logic, those who work hardest based on your opinion should now be taxed the highest amount!

There is no doubt that some peoples jobs are physically more taxing than others, high pay does not always equal working the hardest.
It's a combination of good choices, opportunity and personal aptitude.

The reality is not everyone can do someone else's job, even with the best education in the world, the reality is some people simply aren't going to be able to be a doctor or a nurse who whoever you believe is the most deserving.....but at the same time, I know I physically can't work in a job that requires me to be standing all day. People go into jobs they are capable of, which means there will always be people doing lower paid jobs and higher paid regardless of the tax system

And yet I replied. I can tell you were making a dig at me.

Well no. It all depends on the industry. The highest earners I know are lawyers. They aren’t getting paid by Joe/Jane Bloggs. They are paid by the large corporations that employ them. If you go far enough down the food chain then yes - but you can say that about every worker out there!
Plus I actually don’t know anyone who complains about having to pay tax. In fact they seem more aware about the need to pay tax to keep the infrastructure of society going.

Working in McDonalds is easier than university or higher management if your natural skill set leans towards the practical and physical rather than the intellectual or strategic. Some people are natural academics, leaders and strategic thinkers. Others naturally skew towards delivery and implementation and following instruction. The second group will obviously find managenent jobs very hard, because they're working against their grain. The first group may find service jobs very hard for the same reason.

you pay 40% of tax when you earn over 50k & 45% over 125k. Thats mental that should you earn 49k any pay increase in pay is detrimental to your income.

high earners who get a million pound dividend will pay the tax man over 400k in tax. To think you wouldn’t complain about that is outstanding and I applaud your moral superiority. Especially when the value of services you most likely don’t use is so dire. These people who pay the most are also likely taking the least out of the services. They don’t clog gp appointments & their kids will attend a private school. They’re likely also providing you all with work. I don’t get the isn’t it all our money. Well of course it isn’t, a good analogy for this I’ve seen on social media. Imagine you & a mate was doing exams and you’ve sacrificed your time, not gone out, worked late and lost sleep worrying about them. But your mate has been to every party, watched several box sets and on the morning of the exam spoke about her blissful restful sleep. You get an A she gets a C & the exam body then says to make this fair we giving you both a B because your success is nothing but luck & it’s not your mates fault she didn’t study.

its why places such as Dubai is appealing. Because you get to keep your A & youre not penalised for achieving it. High earners are demonised in this country.

Again, I don't think that's fair. Hard work no longer pays off for the vast majority of people. A 3 bed house is upwards of £500k where I'm from and completely out of reach. It's despondency, not laziness.