We don't want the government to lurch to the left

[Bargepole45]

I am absolutely astounded that Labour think it's democratic to decide that they can lurch to the left despite being elected with a very clear promise to not tax and spend. I believe this is absolutely not what the general public want and I am really worried that the economy isn't going to survive this and we will end up with an IMF bailout that will lead to very painful spending cuts for our most vulnerable.

Please vote:
YABU :I want Labour to lurch to the left in order to increase taxation and spending
YANBU: I don't want Labour to lurch to the left and would be against further tax and spending rises

The wording of this topic is almost too idiotic to make it worthy of a response. What ‘promise’ are you referring to? Labour’s manifesto pledges? (Newsflash, manifesto pledges have been broken by every government in living memory). Or are you just against paying taxes at all? In which case I’m sure you won’t be using any public roads, calling the police next time you need help, using NHS healthcare, or depending on your household waste being collected anytime soon?

I think this post is closer to the first line tbf

No, you are an individual. The fact you don't follow an observable trend doesn't invalidate the trend. That's not how statistics work.

This in spades. The SNP has ‘lifted x number of kids out of poverty’ apparently, when all they’ve done is bung their parents lots and lots of money. The educational attainment gap is still widening though. They could have worked to improve kids lives but that’s far too much like hard work. Giving away money is much easier, makes us look like nice guys. Let’s just turn a blind eye as to whether it helps anyone.

But you are one person and no one has claimed it’s 100% so their claim is not wrong

Thankyou I saw that but members are more hard line supporters
and not representative of the majority of the populations voting habits

Like all these things, most of us know the extra funding will never reach the point of need (the kids in this case).

The PS VAT raid and promised 6,500 new state school teacher is another example.

It’s all bullshit.

What would you suggest?

Sure start was so much more effective in improving lives than cash handouts.

The effect of sure start: https://ifs.org.uk/publications/short-and-medium-term-impacts-sure-start-educational-outcomes

we certainly could do with reducing send costs just now.

Stopping the lies would be a decent start.

What’s your view?

We do need to resolve it as part of an overhaul of the tax system yes. But studies have shown that instances of actual benefit fraud are pretty low. So if you're looking to gain as much tax money as possible, you'll gain more going after huge profitable businesses than you will going after the few people claiming benefits fraudulently. So it's about the effectiveness of where you spend your time and resources.

I'm here to express my opinion which I did. I'm not going to spend my time laying out all the research I've done to a random argumentative person on a forum, that's a waste of time. Just because I don't want to engage with you doesn't make me wrong. Maybe you have more time on your hands than I do

I'm just getting a bit befuddled by how many times I've now read the utterly agenda-less OP writing 'lurch to the left'. OP, why IS is that political parties 'lurch' to the Left?

I'm also getting an ear worm from Rocky Horror now ... 'It's just a LURCH to the Left ...'

In fairness, this government has done a significant amount of ‘lurching’ - crisis to crisis, u-turn after u-turn, so perhaps the OP can be forgiven.

Opinions based on proven and copied facts are worth more in terms of a reasoned argument. It’s very normal for research and backing up information
That’s not to say people can’t believe and say whatever random stuff they like of course…free speech and all that
It’s interesting that a request for stats in your opinion makes me argumentative. Disagreeing with an opinion when there’s no proof offered is sensible, not argumentative

but I’ll leave you there if you don’t have the proof ( or don’t want to post it? ) that’s all fine and you could have just ignored the requests. That’s what others do when they don’t have it.

Labour will bring this country to its knees .

My opinion IS based on research, I'm just not going to spend my time laying it out to you. Asking for research isn't argumentative, but your tone is.

Did you miss 2010-2024? It’s been on its knees for a long time.

Well that is good that in your opinion Labour shall be able to bring the country up a little as the Tories pulled the UK down to the gutter

I personally have faith that Labour shall be more successful than you predict

18 months vs 14 years (With Brexit and a global pandemic).

Hmmm….

Obviously without posting anything we don’t know that of course
Much the same as writing a research paper….proof is required

but as Ive already said this ( and it’s not my call of course ) is mumsnet and not an exam so you do whatever you like

just as others will chose not to believe it without proof.

Im done !! with people who call people names just for asking for proof. It’s actually entirely normal !

And when do you think that success might come because there’s precious little sign of it so far .

Sorry, what I meant is do you have an idea of what a reasonable taxation and spend system would look like.

From your posts I can see that you don’t like the idea of taxing wealth, or applying VAT to private education, but what solutions would you suggest?

Taming spending and avoiding performative taxation which raises little to nothing. I.e. PS VAT.

Labour have tried the former with the Welfare reform bill, but ran into the back benches, of course.

Stop pandering to the unions, and the NHS should also not be treated as a holy cow, just because it’s politically expedient.

What you don’t do is chase away capital and investment, entrepreneurs and high earners.