We don't want the government to lurch to the left

[Bargepole45]

I am absolutely astounded that Labour think it's democratic to decide that they can lurch to the left despite being elected with a very clear promise to not tax and spend. I believe this is absolutely not what the general public want and I am really worried that the economy isn't going to survive this and we will end up with an IMF bailout that will lead to very painful spending cuts for our most vulnerable.

Please vote:
YABU :I want Labour to lurch to the left in order to increase taxation and spending
YANBU: I don't want Labour to lurch to the left and would be against further tax and spending rises

She’ll implement it then backtrack and ensure every wealthy person leaves the country without getting any tax from them. It’s like the speculation that she’s going to introduce an exit tax so people move assets overseas, then she doesn’t actually do it.

If you’re going to do these things it’s vital that you spring them on the UK public rather than giving them enough warning to move assets away. So maybe she’s calling everyone bluff (I doubt it).

So do you agree that you're suggesting socialism is selfish?

You said they have rent controls without thinking of actual workable policies. so that's where I got that idea

Fot what it's worth I agree the new rent controls won't help anything, I'm just not really sure what that has to do with the conversation

Or don’t implement them in the first place, by guile or otherwise. She semi-backtracked on non-doms following siginificant capital flight.

Wealth taxes simply do not work - it has been amply demonstrated elsewhere.

Like PS VAT - the politics of envy and playing to the back bench gallery.

Speak for yourself. Many, many left wing people stay left wing as they get older.

The data is pretty definitive.

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49978-how-britain-voted-in-the-2024-general-election

Left wing parties are far more popular with the young and far less popular as people age.

I do think having a CGT exit tax would be a good idea. We’re a bit of an outlier in not having one.

I am not a fan of his, but Janan Ganesh has just penned a good piece in the FT.

To those of you who also have a subscription.

Based on @EasternStandard s question to you on ‘ which of your taxes would you like raised’

you’ve replied that you want wealth taxed
-So is that your wealth and by how much ?
-or other people’s wealth and by how much ?

Assume you mean all wealth
ie
-savings and investments ?
-equity on all property ?
-and all other assets ?

For everyone ?
or just the few ?

I do think it can be selfish to support left wing policies if you stand to gain from them. For example, if I had six kids would you suggest I was selfless for supporting a lift on the two child benefit cap? I obviously would have a vested interest. Lots of people that work in the public sector or are heavily dependent on the state will support left wing policies because ultimately it benefits them. I'm not above it myself. I supported Labour in my teens and early 20s and leaned left politically. Of course I did! I had barely any money so knew ultimately I wasn't going to pay and would benefit from increased expenditure in the public services I used. Why not fund everything people want if I didn't have to actually pay for it? I haven't become more selfish, it's just now I'm expected to pay for everything.

Note I have explicitly avoided conflating socialism with some left wing policy. The more radical left wing has long departed from "each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". Now it is just about meeting people's needs irrespective of their willingness to contribute.

Exactly

'Tax wealth not work' is quite a big campaign going on at the moment, and I'm support of it. I'm not going to lay out a detailed plan of exactly how that would work on a mumsnet thread to you

I agree but not before we have a significant clamp down on all tax and welfare fraud and investigate the year on year rising welfare bill

It needs to do something to improve the lives of British people. All the evidence is slightly more left wing policies do this.

And they’re only really talking about going slightly left, having been pretty centrist so far.

I agree but I think tax fraud / evasion is the far bigger problem ££ wise

What is
the more European style system
and how would it benefit everyone more

It’s hard to really clamp down on tax fraud when the majority of it was done by small traders and so many people on mumsnet seem to think paying cash in hand (when they suspect the money won’t make it to a self assessment) is fine by them.

I think ultimately it's about fairness. And should we be looking at taxing working people more than we already do, when many would argue there are already people/businesses not paying enough. I see what you're saying but that's a very negative light to view hardworking people in. My perspective is more than many people already pay a fair share and others don't and we should equalise that

Where companies pay for their employees health insurance. My company pays for my health insurance now (I work in the UK) and that money goes to BUPA. That money could be going to the state provider instead, like happens in most of Europe. More funding. They’d have to provide a FAR better service though. My employer pays BUPA because my skills are valuable to them and they want me working, not ill.

I consider myself left of centre and always have been. I don’t want to pay taxes, but I understand that I need to as I am part of wider society. I am a higher rate tax payer, very comfortable off. I understand that’s partly due to luck and not everyone is as lucky in life. Also luck can turn quickly. I don’t know why I should become a more selfish person as I grow older (I am in my 50s).

I hope we stay Labour. They need time to sort the mess left by the Tories.

OK, but can you define ‘wealth’ please.

Thx

You're welcome to have a look at the tax wealth bit work campaign if you're interested, plenty of information available online

What research ? because countries that have implemented it have fallen foul

appreciate its a widely debated subject as a theory.

but we do see that between 1990 and 2019, most European countries (including Germany, Sweden, and France) abolished their wealth taxes due to administrative costs, capital flight, and low revenue.

The majority switch though. We’ve seen this just on simple surveys of those who have won lottery money for example

I was just wondering if you actually had any figures etc. you don’t. That’s fine

Assume you are aware most European countries that introduced wealth taxes found them both unsuccessful and damaging and have since backtracked.

There is clear precedent that it is an unsuccessful long term method
Which is why the IFS are against it.

Ok, so you don’t have some personal views, then?