We don't want the government to lurch to the left

[Bargepole45]

I am absolutely astounded that Labour think it's democratic to decide that they can lurch to the left despite being elected with a very clear promise to not tax and spend. I believe this is absolutely not what the general public want and I am really worried that the economy isn't going to survive this and we will end up with an IMF bailout that will lead to very painful spending cuts for our most vulnerable.

Please vote:
YABU :I want Labour to lurch to the left in order to increase taxation and spending
YANBU: I don't want Labour to lurch to the left and would be against further tax and spending rises

It's a shorthand way of suggesting that we raise taxes on other people. Most of us aren't wealthy so we think it won't impact us. We don't actually want to pay more taxes ourselves. Every single poll shows this. We are only in favour of tax rises when they are done to other people.

I am in favour of a rise in income tax. It is the fairest thing to do.

I find THIS question really naive. Are you asking me why the government doesn't tax the rich more?

Firstly no there is no 'straightforward' way to do it fairly. It needs to be looked at carefully in order to be fair, for example to have different tax brackets based on profits, so multimillion pound businesses pay more tax without it impacting small local businesses.

The majority of the government, labour or tory, is made up of wealthy people whose families know each other, who become friends at Eton. They're not going to tax their mates.

Are you seriously implying that if wealth taxes were a good idea then Labour would have done it by now? Because there's a lot more to it than that

That’s because the media fuels it. Nick Ferrari even admitted that LBC is part of the circus that drives all this.

Yep, same.

I would reband the tax thresholds and stagger the increases so they happen earlier, but without the cliff edges at higher and additional rate.

Ok no they probably won’t. The Greens seem to be suggesting it if they’d get your vote.

Exactly! “Tax someone but just not me.”

we all have to pay more tax if we want better public services. There is no magic money tree.

Yup. I’d roll income tax and NICs together, give everyone a personal allowance, childcare hours and child benefit to remove cliff edges, and increase income tax to pay for it. Simple.

I’d actually be happy to pay more tax for better public services, but only if they eliminate the inefficiencies in the system first.

I’d also prefer the NHS to go and the country to move to a more European-style system. It’s simply not fit for purpose and hasn’t been for as long as I can remember.

It doesn’t take a very skilled economist to show what a total and utter disaster wealth taxes have been wherever they’ve been tried. Could THIS be the reason why Labour didn’t go through with it? Hmm?

I feel like you're looking at this from such a small scope perspective. Like are you just talking about income tax?

The way large businesses generate all their profits is by extracting it from the population, from people. Either through their work (so many businesses with huge profits that pay minimum wage) or through us buying their products.

We need to make sure enough of that money is getting circulated back to those people, through taxation and providing public services. If we just let them generate ridiculous profit by extracting it from us we'll be left with less and less until....well until we're in the kind of situation economically we're in now.

'Hmmmm?' Yikes what a smarmy tone.

Yes I have actually looked into research on it and I don't agree with how you've characterised it

Ok then. I’m sure you know what you’re talking about and have much more experience than me.

What's with the tone? Are you not capable of having a polite debate with someone who disagrees with you?

We live in a global economy with global businesses and competition. We aren't a big enough country to be isolationist and we don't have a huge amount of natural resources or shortage skills. In this context, taxing businesses is very very difficult and can lead to businesses leaving en masse. Why would I manufacture in the UK when I can manufacture in China? Scandinavia hasn't even managed to crack the Amazon nut so why do you think we can? The use of Luxembourg etc is a global issue that the UK can't solve alone.

Basically what you're suggesting is unworkable. Nowhere in the world has achieved it.

Do you think we should charge more corporation tax then? Do you think our rates are too low? Because they are higher than the EU average, and if we are wanting to attract inward investment (which we are desperate to do) we cannot keep hiking it up.

In an era of globalisation we cannot just do what we like in the UK without thinking of the consequences.

Wealth taxes don't work. Neither do rent controls. The left don't ever want to admit this as it means that they can't just have loads of extra money and cheaper housing without thinking of actual workable policies.

I doubt it will go on better public services for all though.

It will all go to the sky rocketing welfare bill.

Honestly I'm finding it difficult to take you seriously and to be able to engage properly with you. Who do you mean by 'the left'? Are you suggesting 'the left' have NO housing policies?

Then again, you're using this thread to genuinely try to characterise socialism as selfish so the whole thing is a little hard to get my head around

We need to build more houses that people want to and buy, where people want to buy and ban second homes / airB&Bs. We need to expand the market. We need to dispose of the endless requirements that hamper construction in this country, and kick nimbys into touch. We need to see falling house prices as a good thing. A vital thing.

Then people will have more money spare to pay higher taxes.

The fact that you seem so bemused and incapable of understanding my argument is your issue. The arguments I make are clear, you can disagree with them but it's odd that you seem unable to comprehend them.

My point regarding rent controls is that they don't work. They are also repeatedly brought up by the left as part of the answer to the housing crisis. I never suggested the left had no other housing policies. How on earth you got that from my post is frankly baffling.

Dd is a recent graduate and is working for an MP. She’s sitting in on PMQ just now. What shall I tell her to ask?!

Please define ‘wealth’ and describe what mechanisms you would use to tax it.

Thanks.

Reeves has gone on record saying she will not implement a wealth tax.

That means she probably will implement a wealth tax, of course, before gas-lighting everyone.

So, following your logic - we are all so gullible as to believe the media - of any hue - over the reality, namely terrible policies, from a terrible government?

When you belittle voters this way, don’t complain when you get s Brexit, or a Trump.