We don't want the government to lurch to the left

[Bargepole45]

I am absolutely astounded that Labour think it's democratic to decide that they can lurch to the left despite being elected with a very clear promise to not tax and spend. I believe this is absolutely not what the general public want and I am really worried that the economy isn't going to survive this and we will end up with an IMF bailout that will lead to very painful spending cuts for our most vulnerable.

Please vote:
YABU :I want Labour to lurch to the left in order to increase taxation and spending
YANBU: I don't want Labour to lurch to the left and would be against further tax and spending rises

I struggle to see how Reform could possibly 'lurch to the right' post election. They are absolutely upfront and clear about the fact they are fascists. If people vote for them, that's what they're voting for. Unless they are just too painfully dumb to see that, and you can't account for people being gormless when they vote.

What if more money was spent on pensions, adult social care, SEN education and benefits? This will be where more taxes are spent before we get round to social housing or health.

Any shift to the left is going to be slight. Starmer is not going to gallop towards communism. He is a centrist.

Just because something was not in it manifesto, that doesn't mean a government can't do it. Government policy responds to changing times, it is nothing new. If we needed a GE everytime a new, non-manifesto policy was introduced we'd have endless GEs.

At least they are transparent. People hate governments who lie and deceive.

Reform is absolutely not a fascist party. They are a right wing populist party. There is an important distinction. Just because you don't like what they stand for we must use this kind of terminology correctly to differentiate between different parties. A truly fascist party would be very different and a lot more terrifying.

That is literally what the Tories did over their most recent tenure. They went from Cameron's 'caring conservatism (obviously bollocks but people believed it) to Truss's 'let's just smash shit up and see what happens' via fucking Boris Johnson. It's perfectly legitimate practice unfortunately, as MANIFESTOS ARE NOT BINDING. Whether they should be or not is a different debate. But this is why you can't be robotic about voting (look at the manifesto pledges and decide which options you like best). You have to consider who the individuals are with clout in the party, their philosophies, and their paymasters. You have to consider their record. And, fundamentally, you have to take a punt. Most of all you have to be ready to strike and turn out in the street if the government overreaches, because that and the ballot box every few years are ultimately the only powers we little people have.

I never suggested a government must stick to their manifesto completely. That would be impractical and lead to political instability. If however you have been elected as a centrist party and want to now be a left wing government then this isn't just a change of policy in some areas. It's a fundamental shift in direction. This should require a new political mandate

That you simply address my last sentence and ignore the rest, speaks volumes.

No, you just want Labour alone to never divert from their manifesto.

Yep.

Sarah Pochin requested a Q&A with the debating society at Bangor University. The debating society said no ta, we don't like you. Now Reform threatens to cut Bangor's funding if it gets into power. Fascistic (and thick).

Erm there were two elections between Cameron and Truss. Nobody voted for Cameron and got Truss.

That you simply won't answer my reasonable question speaks volumes.

I do too - as it will accelerate their demise.

Deteriorating economic data will do that to a government….

Exactly.
About 50% of the UK tax comes from us spending. It's an unhealthy amount of money to rely on and we have no real industry otherwise to keep the dosh rolling.

The UK is in trouble, it really is. This has been tinkered with over the generations but it's never been fixed. You say taxation to businesses is what is killing industry, but it's not just down to that. We've been losing businesses left right and centre for 15+ years and that's nothing to do with Labours tax increase. If you're honest, you'll see that it cannot be all be blamed on Labour.

As it stands, the tories have broken it all. Tax is the only thing the gov have left until someone finds a way of making money otherwise. Not easy.

But when people are waiting, off work in their millions with a broken NHS, when cost of living is too high and people are doing everything they can to keep their head above water, they are not spending. That very spending is what keeps the economy going. We, as a country, are going around in circles.

No I don't. I have written lots of times that you can't hold an election just because a policy has changed. This isn't what's happening here. They are changing their approach to government. From centrist to left wing. If they instead decided to lurch to the right would you think that's totally fine?

They did vote for Johnson and got Truss and Sunak though.

Ooh, I like this game.

If I go first, do you promise to go next?

Yes all of which were right wing leaders. They didn't have the same caring conservative stance as Cameron.

Ok there are probably a few Labour backbenchers unaware of why they shouldn’t, but who will demand the same. Go for it I guess.

Caring? Cameron? That’s an oxymoron if ever I heard one.

Good lord - I got to about the 5th post where Andy Burnham and Angela Rayner were referred to as ‘left wing’ bless. 🤣

I think op it’s clear Starmer is now focused on saving his job than running the country, this site also has a heavy left wing participation so I’d not take the results as representative of society/

There were left-wing policies in Labour's manifesto. Many of the MPs elected are far more left-wing than Starmer. Your argument simply doesn't stand up.

Spot on.

It’s all about Starmer - not the country.

Another lie of his - country before party.

Who do you see as actually left wing?