We don't want the government to lurch to the left

[Bargepole45]

I am absolutely astounded that Labour think it's democratic to decide that they can lurch to the left despite being elected with a very clear promise to not tax and spend. I believe this is absolutely not what the general public want and I am really worried that the economy isn't going to survive this and we will end up with an IMF bailout that will lead to very painful spending cuts for our most vulnerable.

Please vote:
YABU :I want Labour to lurch to the left in order to increase taxation and spending
YANBU: I don't want Labour to lurch to the left and would be against further tax and spending rises

I assume you put your money where your mouth is and donate the money you'd happily spend in tax to your local schools and hospitals? You can self select to have the tax regime you like. Normally when asked people respond with bluster of "I would BUT...."

I think some posters think anyone slightly left of centre is a communist!

David Cameron’s post-premiership philanthropy focuses heavily on dementia research as President of Alzheimer’s Research UK, where he helped raise over £20 million.

He also chairs the advisory council for the Oxford-Harrington Rare Disease Centre and continues to champion social enterprise through initiatives like The Fore. His work emphasizes medical research and community-based support.

😂

There were very few left wing policies in the manifesto. Even the lifting of the two child cap wasn't in there or the mansion tax. They were very careful to state they wouldn't be the party of tax and spend. This was repeated over and over again.

Individual MPs being more left wing is irrelevant. If your options are basically between Tory and Labour and people have had enough of the Tories then they have no choice other than to vote for their local MP. They can't vote for an MP that better aligns with the manifesto. At the time of election most of the MPs were holding the party line anyway. They literally pretended to be centrist to get into power.

Why the reluctance to hold another election? If you're right and the people want a left wing government then let them vote for it.

Neither of them tbh.
I mean - Jeremy was , I’d say the SCG are - Zarah Sultana, Nadia Whittome, Kim Johnson, Richard Burgon etc.

i don’t think any of the above are decent politicians (or people) by the way.
To imply that Andy and Angie are some kind of Left wing firebrands is funny.

Yes of course you're right. Yougov has found that the general population has a score of -3 when polled where -100 is left wing and +100 is right wing. Basically they are almost exactly in the centre. There simply isn't the appetite amongst them for a left wing government like this thread pretends.

What I would like is the black economy tackled,

Corporate tax avoidance which people bang on but is not evasion is estimated at around 15 billion PA to give an actual indication what that means the NHS costs about 200 billion a year to run. Amazon who seem especially despised on MN so I hope anyone who does despise them chooses not to use them because who likes a hypocrite manages to avoid paying about 575 million tax a year.

The hidden economy, all that cash in hand stuff and what is total tax evasion so actually illegal accounts to billions but the figure is much harder to pin down. The individual amounts tend to be small.People will take a discount for cash and say well it’s up to them to declare but everyone knows they will not always declare.

A young person I know said what if any tax individuals paid could be directed at only services that they approved of. It was just a pondering of a teenage school kid but it’s an interesting moral question.

Bargepole45 · Today 09:34

Erm there were two elections between Cameron and Truss. Nobody voted for Cameron and got Truss.

Aye, but people voted for Johnson and got Truss, then Sunak.

They were elected on a manifesto that said very little. Thats how you win an election - I’m still reading the one from 2019! Free cockerpoo on your birthday ! Renationalise air! Free internet for all ! Donuts for breakfast every Saturday!

the PPC’s were all saying the same things. Individual MP’s may have made pledges about their own patch ‘more police on the streets in Turton and Bogdale’, ‘improve the NHS here in Floppy and Dirden’ that’s how you win elections. Suitably vague pledges - and I have to say it looks like they are delivering.

They did say some things which they’ve followed through on (private schools etc) the rest they’ve announced as they’ve gone along.

I’m not here to bat for them by the way - I would have stuck with the winter cruise allowance cuts - the Waspi women can clear off - the two child cap I never agreed with do am glad we are not punishing children by making their parent too poor to feed and clothe them.

I think they could and should do more- I suspect once the ugly stuff is out of the way - Keir’ll be replaced.

My partner and I have been pondering that question the last few days, having taken an absolute battering for having a disabled child and also seeing in my HMRC account exactly how my tax is distributed.

I think it would give people more ownership over their tax spend, which would make them less likely to cherry pick who or what they’re angry about supporting.

The concern however is that not enough of us would put money into welfare, and elderly or disability “pots.” Some of them would run dry, because if Mumsnet is anything to go by, people don’t like funding the vulnerable.

Our plan for Britain is a fully costed, fully funded, credible plan to turn the country around after 14 years of the Conservatives. It contains a tax lock for working people – a pledge not to raise rates of income tax, national insurance or VAT

https://labour.org.uk/change/labours-fiscal-plan/

None of this even hints at a shift to the left. The opposite in fact. As I've repeated several times, this isn't about tweaking policy. This happens. It's about a wholesale shift in direction that nobody votes for.

And some people in the UK didn't want him to go and are fed up with changes of leaders. People will vote in the locals to voice their displeasure in May.

None of which is relevant to his policies and performance as PM which were the polar opposite of caring.

You’re right that this thread doesn’t reflect general views on taxing more but I do think many Labour backbenchers are going to be pushing for spending more and Starmer will be impacted by that.

BUT, your point is moot.
1p in every pound isn't going to do diddly with one person, maybe buy a few books for a school. But as a collective it creates a lot of wealth.

Tax has been made to be a dirty word by the tories, which is amusing. They raised taxes during their last stint.

My local Labour MP is a comrade but absolutely does not have a left wing constituency. He won marginally and basically only because people were fed up with the Tories and wanted change. It didn't seem risky with all the assurances offered by Starmer et al. There are a lot of people regretting their vote right now as since the MP has got in he has unleashed his own agenda that people were largely unaware of. It wasn't on the leaflets or website. How is this democratic? He is one of the hard lefties pressuring Starmer and yet he would be voted out tomorrow in another election was held.

Yep that’s how it goes. The Labour fully costed fully funded line was an absolute corker. It was dropped pdq even though many bought into it. It was nonsense pre GE anyway.

The person who kept the MPs in line has gone so expect a lot of pressure on a leader who is more vulnerable to it.

People might get misty eyed on mn about more being taken out of their pay (or more likely for others to have that) but the electorate don’t want even higher taxes so they’ll vote as such. Just ride it out I guess and see what happens.

But you posted that Cameron was not caring - which is patently untrue.

It was obvious that the point was made about him as PM, not as an individual. Cameron’s austerity policies took an axe to public services, no caring politician does that. Whatever he’s done post politics is completely irrelevant.

In my rugby playing days, we would often target the weakest opposition player with a difficult ball, or ‘invite’ them to give away a penalty/collapse a scrum etc.

Starmer is that player - if there is an unforced error to be had, or a try begging to be missed - he will manage a way to screw up. Just give him the ball.

There are plenty more ‘opportunities’ for him to demonstrate what an empty suit he is - 26th Feb, the May locals, the Spring ‘mini budget’, the fall-out from the Mandelson papers.

It’s a given.

They’re as left wing as anyone can ever see getting into power though aren’t they? No one is going to vote Nadia Whitcome for PM are they?

Using your own metrics, Starmer is not a ‘caring’ politician either, then.

OK.

Can't vote because the premise of your question is bizarre, because with the exception of Gender Ideology, Starmer's Labour is Tory lite and has lurched to the right. Not the left. Sometimes over certain things (farming, WASPI, benefits etc) it's like he's trying to out-Tory the Tories. If he got back to the left it would be better for the UK.

That’s what you lot were saying last week, that he would be gone in 2 days, and he hasn’t gone.

Nothing is a given, stop thinking you’re Mystic Meg.