We don't want the government to lurch to the left

[Bargepole45]

I am absolutely astounded that Labour think it's democratic to decide that they can lurch to the left despite being elected with a very clear promise to not tax and spend. I believe this is absolutely not what the general public want and I am really worried that the economy isn't going to survive this and we will end up with an IMF bailout that will lead to very painful spending cuts for our most vulnerable.

Please vote:
YABU :I want Labour to lurch to the left in order to increase taxation and spending
YANBU: I don't want Labour to lurch to the left and would be against further tax and spending rises

They already paid London Living Wage as their lowest. It's the NICs increase.

Landlords can’t pay low tax on rent. And there are usually very good reasons why there are lower taxes on different sorts of income. Take dividend income for instance. This is taxed at a lower rate because people investing in dividends (ie companies) is something the government want to encourage. The government acknowledges that doing so if a risk so needs an incentive.

A government wants to encourage innovation and investment as this makes the whole country more wealthy - more jobs, more tax etc. it’s not going to be able to do that if it doesn’t offer any tax perks for investment.

You seem to think there are loopholes but aren’t willing to give any examples.

The biggest loophole for IHT was business and agriculture exemptions, where rich people pile in to buy land as a way of passing on their wealth free from IHT. The government rightly tried to close that loophole and it went down like a cup of cold sick!

(but admittedly they could have gone about the tax changes in a much more sophisticated way and therefore ensured they hit tax dodgers and left actual farmers alone).

Why?

One loophole is signing property over this has been done for generations as a way to keep wealth in the family

landlords earnings are taxed lower than wages, renting a property (or two) is not running a business (it’s not difficult) it’s extra money coming in so why isn’t it taxed in the same way

business especially large businesses have been able to lobby governments and persuade them with threats it’s time to stand up to this, they have kept wages low

what we have now is not working it hasn’t worked for some time and since 2008 all we have seen is the divide getting bigger. I’m disappointed to have a Labour government that are not willing to take risks and again pandering to large businesses and those who threaten to take money out of the country

Paid full tax for 43 years. Love paying tax because it’s the mark of a civilised society. Healthcare and education free at point of entry is fantastic. Albeit that health and education has been much undermined by trusts and academization. Along with Brexit, mass privatisation and selling off of public assets has been the biggest disaster. I can’t understand why so many people think business is so good. Pay people well so they can pay their taxes and buy products (also taxed) to boost the economy. That’s not lunching to the left, that’s making money to spend money.

I agree with this

Gary?? @Agrumpyknitter

I like this reply on Reddit regarding insta Gary

‘ It's the fact that Gary doesn't do what economists actually do. He doesn't write policy briefs or economic reports. He repeats a popular message over and over, sells his book, and makes more money.
He's a former trader, turned influencer, who has a masters degree in economics.
I have a degree in international relations, but it doesn't make me a diplomat.

Also, Gary talks about his father owning his home, having steady income as a post office worker, and his mum claims to have paid for him to go to university. Is that really working class? Or maybe Gary plays up the identity for more clicks? ‘

They’ve equally backtracked on the disability benefits crackdown

Labour currently don’t seem to have a clue

This would make perfect sense if we didn't all buy imported goods and go on holidays abroad so the money stayed on our economy. It also would make perfect sense if inflation wasn't a thing and our businesses didn't need to compete globally to export goods. Look at Sweden and how high wages can drive unemployment unless you have very specific conditions. High wages aren't the golden bullet in a global economy.

They don't have the political mandate to take big risks. Nobody votes for these big risks. If they've known since 2008 another way was needed then why not campaign on this basis? Why couldn't they make the argument and convince people? We are meant to live in a democracy where the majority rules. Not where you lie to get into power and then completely change your agenda once you're in so that you can make radical changes nobody actually voted for. I am flabbergasted you think this is ok!

A balloon with a face drawn on it could have won the 2024 GE versus the Tories.

Labour got in on bare-faced lies (Sunak called out Starmer multiple times), and the anyone but Tories vote.

Labour will be consigned to the wilderness for a multiple of 14 years after this abomination of a government.

Many of us are sick and tired of being taxed to the nth degree, to being lied to, to being gas-lit, to having any vestige of aspiration beaten out of us, to having to fund seemingly endless economic refugees, and to supporting the undeserving welfare crowd.

There will be consequences.

Well they can convince each other they need to take big risks and do it without mandate but the electorate and the markets might show what they think of that.

I want Labour to reposition itself as left rather than centerist, I want them to have true socialist values, rather than sucking up to rich donors and taking freebies. I want Labour to be clearly distinguishable from the Tories.

Do you think they can do that when they have been elected as a centrist party? Do you think a re-election would be needed to give them a new mandate?

Consequences? That sounds ominous. Do you mean we might end up with Farage at the helm?

You can want that, but that wasn’t what they said they were going to do when they were elected into government and many - me included - wouldn’t have voted for them if they had. It’s a totally different type of politics. Do you think it’s fair that they dramatically change their political stance without calling a general election and trying to win a mandate for it?

I would expect Labour supporters to be more left wing. A lurch to the left makes more sense than one to the right.

Labour has nothing to lose in terms of the electorate rn. May as well go for it iyswim. It might actually work, who knows.

I think they do have something to lose but listening to a backbencher this morning it’s sounding more inevitable.

I think they risk seriously damaging democracy. Have we ever had a party shift so strongly from a political position before unless there is a major crisis? Being cynical, what is to stop Reform shifting to a completely fascist position if they're voted in on a relatively moderate right wing manifesto? Why would this be worse than Labour shifting to the left? What about someone using democracy and it's tools to become a dictator? Where do we draw the line? At what point do people admit that the government's policies have changed so much since election that they no longer gave a democratic mandate?

Bring on the IMF. No political group of any sort is going to do what needs to be done - it's too unpopular.

It will have to be forced externally.

I don't want labour to lurch to the left.

I want them to stampede over there. Where they began and where the majority of their voters sit.

Absolutely.

If they hold another election and do this then I don't think anyone would have a problem if you're right and the voters want this then they will have a full term in office with a clear mandate. So do you support this?

Another one here who would happily pay more tax ( I’m currently taxed at the higher rate) if it meant more was spent on education, health and social housing. “Tax and spend” isn’t to everyone the terrifying harbinger of doom that you think it is