To think the roots of the grooming gangs go back to failures from the 1950s on?

[Carla786]

I was reading Hina Husain's excellent article here and it made me think

https://unherd.com/2025/06/mirpuris-and-the-problem-of-integration/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

that discussion of the roots of the grooming gangs tends to focus on Blair's failed multiculturalism policies, local council/police etc failings.

But what rarely gets talked about is why and how large parts of the northern Mirpuri Pakistani communities were allowed to get to such a self-segregated and dysfunctional state to begin with.
Why was there no research in the 1950s-60s on the clan systems, misogynistic practices prevalent in rural Mirpuri villages when they were encouraged to immigrate? Why PMs from Wilson, Heath, Thatcher etc never appear to make integration of such communities a priority to some extent?

Most stuff just seems to blame PC culture & Tony Blair, who do share a huge amount of blame, but less is asked about why this situation, clearly full of potential issues, was never addressed much from the 60s to 1997...

I wonder if part of the issue was that despite prejudice & unrest, the Windrush generation integrated fairly smoothly ultimately. Were government people maybe led by this to assume similar for Pakistani Mirpuris?

I think I'd need a lot more evidence that grooming gangs are more prevalent from these areas than from other ethnic groups (including white, established communities) before I comment. Probably not many Pakistanis in the Epstein files...

We were cononialists and made great profit by ruling other countries like Pakistan - then assumed if they came to our superior and richer (thanks to the colonies) country would choose to adopt our ways.

It's very odd : Caribbean immigrants spoke English, had been raised with 'mother country' ideas etc. Pakistani immigrants in Mirpur mainly didn't speak English, had not been raised with those ideas, the list goes on..

Did they just think all foreigners from the Commonwealth were the same?

Ridiculous post.

Relative to their proportion of the population, English Pakistani men, mainly from or having heritage from Mirpur & similar DO have elevated sexual assault rates relative to their proportion of the population. Hence the grooming gangs composed of these men.

America have very few Pakistanis, let alone specifically rural Mirpuris, so that's again a ridiculous comparison.

Do you have evidence of that? Not just one random article.

Why do you think white British men assault children (which they clearly do, in large numbers)? Or are you not so interested in that?

None of that would matter if the authorities did their job rather than worrying about appearing racist or anti-muslim. Jess Phillips and Keir Starmer, and the police are still doing that. Probably social services too. They are a fucking disgrace.

I agree re the grooming gangs specifically.

But the integration problems, forced marriages, honour killings et would have remained. The whole situation was a ticking time bomb for decades .

There's plenty if threads, rightly, discussing Phillips' et also responsibility.

I want this thread to focus on the pre-1997 period.

There is a problem with different cultures sometimes now. That is beyond doubt.

I’m not sure modern style grooming gangs started in the 50’s as it mainly Afro-Caribbean families arriving here then, who shared our culture in many ways. .

But, paedophilia happens in all cultures. I used to work in child protection some years ago - statistically a lot of sexual abuse was coming from step parents, care homes, and voluntary groups/churches then.

I also remember the “rent boys” problem in the 70’s/80’s when very young boys were seen as desirable by some people. . 🤷‍♀️.

I’m sure the victims of grooming gangs in this country will rest easy knowing there’s no mention of Pakistanis in the Epstein files. Ridiculous comment and it just attempts to minimise what these girls went through.

Maybe the empire is reaping what it sowed. All those white British soldiers and civil servants of the British Raj literally forcing local women to be household sex slaves under the noses of their wives (whether home in England or accompanying them), impregnating them and then abandoning them and their mixed race children to the streets.

That’s what the British Empire showed them. That’s the ‘culture’ we insisted was ‘civilised’- that lower class women (no matter their race) were disposable sex objects to use and discard.

And let’s be honest, this was part of our culture in England for men to sexually exploit white peasant/working class girls since before we even called ourselves England (as opposed to kingdoms of Wessex or Northumbria).

Is it any wonder it still persists here in England? All these immigrants did imho is learn it from us and join in with what English men have done for over a thousand years.

Same argument though isn't it? Nobody wants to appear racist and is happy to accept honour killings, rape gangs, fgm, birth defects, bombings etc. etc. providing there are votes in it.

No culture owns sexual exploitation of women. Pakistani men in Mirpur didn't need to be taught it by the British, they have just as much light and dark as we do.

Moreover, the birarderi clan system and misogynistic attitudes have long been very entrenched in Mirpur.

Reminds me of Native Americans who claims the settlers brought scalping. I have sympathy with wanting to defend from racist narratives but that is simply untrue.

You are saying young girls deserve to be raped because of the British empire years before they were born?
You’ll try and argue you’re not but that’s what reap what it sowed means in this context
That’s some black panthers style revenge bullshit right there

Was that the case in the 60s, 70s, 80s, though? Thatcher, for one, was hardly very concerned with the opinions of minority groups or, (a separate issue) PC ideas.

No, I think she's saying Mirpuri men were noble savages who didn't commit sexual assault or have an ingrained culture of it until the British.

The British in India were often awful but that argument is rubbish .

I know the grooming gangs didn't start in the 50s, my point is that the segregated, misogynistic culture of many (not all) Mirpuris that spawned it was brought there in the 50s.

Mirpuris did start coming here in mid-to-late 1950s.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mirpuris&ved=2ahUKEwiymP_gtMySAxV2QEEAHWc9JYoQFnoECCEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2F3lCsNG0wKzMpgtc-pNKo

More detail on birarderi clan networks and how they facilitated the grooming gangs :

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/april-2025/dont-blame-islam-for-grooming-gangs/&ved=2ahUKEwjcqMqj6IGSAxUOXEEAHXqoF8gQFnoECCQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1i1cIreZVeFh78GASn1PJ9%3C/a%3E

I was watching 24 hours in police custody this week and something occurred to me about POc and CSA.

the black man in the episode is a prolific offender, one of the worst the country has seen. Yet outside of this show, his crimes don’t seem to have been discussed much. Suspect most people wouldn’t recognise his name.
I wonder if, because the traditional British bogey / dirty old man is characterised as white, many people don’t really think that men are men* and all over the world, in all ethnicities, they are abusing children.

in particular, if you think back to the 60/70s migration SE Asian immigrants were throught of as inferior and weak, and I’m just not sure anyone thought they were capable of this sort of thing. It was the subservient mindset, quite different to the approach to immigrants today.

*yea we know women abuse children too

I’ve been reading a book written in 1958 - Afghani men bought and sold their wives -they were chattels to be passed on traded . Worthless really. Just there to be used.
It would take a few generations,or laws, to change that.

Yes of course they were all sweet and innocent until we came along and taught them how to be evil.
In all honesty we (brits) invented a lot of stuff and introduced it to other countries that had saved millions of lives certain medicines and things yes the empire did some bad things but so did the Ottoman Empire who somehow get a pass.

Anyway I get what she’s saying but still millions of individual girls were raped and the first sentence of her post put my hair on end I guess it just sounds so much like “thats what you deserve because your nation did bad things way before you were born”

Makes me think of the black panthers

At the very least we showed them it was ‘civilised’ keep on trafficking girls and women. It’s all very hypocritical and ahistorical to claim that sex trafficking/grooming gangs either never existed on these Great British Isles or had been eradicated before the 1950s.

No, I’m not saying that it did not exist, I’m saying we showed up did exactly the same thing to local women and also said it was civilised behaviour.

1974 in the NE of England was the year I was taught about the social problems of first cousin marriage, sexual assault of young girls and the huge increase in the import of heroin from Pakistan. Social work lecture.

No one deserves to be raped. I’m saying that this is an ongoing oppression of women that Britain had long before the 1950s, that we practiced it everywhere our Empire reached and also called it civilised and superior.