To think the roots of the grooming gangs go back to failures from the 1950s on?

[Carla786]

I was reading Hina Husain's excellent article here and it made me think

https://unherd.com/2025/06/mirpuris-and-the-problem-of-integration/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

that discussion of the roots of the grooming gangs tends to focus on Blair's failed multiculturalism policies, local council/police etc failings.

But what rarely gets talked about is why and how large parts of the northern Mirpuri Pakistani communities were allowed to get to such a self-segregated and dysfunctional state to begin with.
Why was there no research in the 1950s-60s on the clan systems, misogynistic practices prevalent in rural Mirpuri villages when they were encouraged to immigrate? Why PMs from Wilson, Heath, Thatcher etc never appear to make integration of such communities a priority to some extent?

Most stuff just seems to blame PC culture & Tony Blair, who do share a huge amount of blame, but less is asked about why this situation, clearly full of potential issues, was never addressed much from the 60s to 1997...

No, I don't think it's necessarily the Pakistani culture and failing to integrate because the culture, for example in the 70s, was misogynist in the UK. Dreadfully so, I was there, and sexual abuse, assault and rape were rarely investigated. If complaints were made, my experience, anecdotal though it is, was the police laughed and the culture was one of disbelief.
If you think it's awful now, imagine how really bloody awful it was then.

Isn’t the problem men, full stop. I’ve been on the sharp end of misogyny as has my DD and always been white men but basically men.

There's a book addressing the white slavery, it's called 'White gold'.

Yes I think largely, to give a blanket summary, West Indians were here to work for 'us' to clean up, mop up, build up after the war, so lots of jobs in industry, nursing, local authorities, public services like transport, trains etc

Asian populations (and I take the posters point above about lumping together so may get some terminology wrong), were here to build up their own businesses, shops, factories, merchants, trade etc etc

Im not sure exactly how that affected how big government or big society viewed each demographic.

Religion would have played a part in how people were seen, Christians at the time would have been seen to be more 'like us' I suspect.

Speaking from experience, young Pakistani boys from that period of time were conditioned to believe that non Muslim girls spent their time sleeping with anyone available. Even boys that were born in Britain were taught this from a young age. I’ve met young men who came here via arranged marriages who have been genuinely surprised that every single British woman isn’t happy to sleep with them if they request it. This was around 20/25 years ago. So, yes, I do believe there have been failures in integrating immigrants into society.

From another side, I know Pakistani men who are currently in prison after being convicted with very little evidence of this type of historical crime. 2 of them were 14 when the ‘crime’ was committed, as far as they were concerned at the time, the girl was their girlfriend and was the same age. I remember this myself as was at school with them at the time. Both women have apparently been moved away and given new lives and identities - fully funded.

I also expect that there will be a similar scandal in years to come around Eastern European men and sex trafficking

One thing I do ask though, is why were these girls in such vulnerable positions? Why were 13 yo’s hanging around takeaways etc at night? That is also a huge failure imo

The difference is they were operating quite openly and the victims were ignored on such a large scale, we have to talk about how that happened and why.

Tbf, we don't know if SummerFenice IS British.

First of all, the authorities didn't do their job - there is this belief, also on this board, that with even very young girls, it's only their own business if they want to have sex and with whom. These men (like many others i.e. Epstein) simply exploited this - they knew nobody would care. I also suspect that very little has changed and the police is still very unwilling to investigate such cases.

Eastern European men and sex trafficking-

What countries?

Yes, I asked it about this subject and it recommended the article. It's a good article : read it.

There were quite a few in care, I remember seeing this man saying it was the parents fault for letting them go out. Not everyone has amazing parents, irrelevant though, that doesn’t mean you get to rape kids.
In Pakistan women and girls are considered whores if they go out with uncovered hair. When I was 13 I used to go out and do my own thing at that age in Pakistan a 13 year old girl wouldn’t be allowed to do that and if something happened to her she’d be blamed. Do we really want that here

Good point. I can imagine it must be very unpleasant to have your community lumped in with the most regressive elements like Mirpuri community ..

The 'Asian all the same' ideas surely did influence government policy badly..

Sigh. Your simplistic and utterly biased framing of this in an attempt to derail from OPs interesting point is tedious.

Start your own thread if you’re that keen.

May I suggest:

The Age of Consent: Victorian Prostitution and Its Enemies by Michael Pearson.
It explores prostitution and reform debates in Victorian Britain, so is valuable for understanding the legal and moral environment in which child sexual exploitation first came into public awareness.

Knowledge of Evil: Child Prostitution and Child Sexual Abuse in Twentieth-Century England by Alyson Brown & David Barrett
A historical study documenting and analysing child prostitution and sexual abuse in England from the late 19th century into the 20th century, looking at social context, policy responses, and legal history across multiple decades.

To give an example, a car wash not far from me is run by some Romanian guys, their office is often frequented by young girls, sat chatting to the men in there. It’s open until late at night, girls are still there.

I could give other examples from the early 90’s, of none Pakistani men who passed young girls about. A night club near to where I used to live was notorious for the bouncers sleeping around with the same girls after buying them drinks

Yes, and yes.

I think there was definitely a class element too. The girls were seen as chavs, promiscuous troublemakers rather than vulnerable teenagers with neglectful or absent parents often.

There have been instances of "rape gangs" or colonising rape from the day that the Ug tribe ravaged the lands of the Ig tribe.
The rise of the Roman empire, the Islamic Empire etc. When Soviet troops "liberated" their way through Poland and the eastern part of Germany in 1945 "booty" and what some posters here would say "reaped what they sowed" happened to thousands of women - raped often many times and not infrequently to death - yes thank you poster. Did that "serve then right" in your eyes?

Even today in the wars in African countries, where one African country ravages and rapes the women of another African country. Is that western colonial influences? Bad whitey even though the European colonists left decades ago?

Innocent women have suffered throughout history, and if be naive to think it's not going to stop anytime soon.

Isn’t it about time we accept and put the past to bed?
The present and future are much more important.

Of course not, but 13 year old girls should not be hanging around on the streets at night or in takeaways with men. And I’m not blaming the girls of course, but the people looking after them should be taking some responsibility for this. Or the authorities that are supposed to keep them safe

Some of the girls had neglectful parents. Others were in care, and there had been a lot of discussion on MN at least about failings to protect there.

My thoughts exactly. I wondered if this person is actually female, or a male of Pakistani heritage. There is at least one other regular poster on mum’s net I am convinced is such.

At the end of the day, Pakistani or otherwise, people (men) need to be held accountable for their actions.

I grew up in East Lancashire (huge Mirpuris population) and I can say that the boys from these communities did not have any respect for white girls. This extended towards the female teachers too. And the radicalisation happened later, not when they arrived. They were all dressed like the Beatles in the 60's, and the women wore colourful salwar kameeze. Now they are head to toe in black nylon, the men in pyjamas.

Pakistani men would hang around the school gates and target vulnerable girls, of which there were many, in deprived Lancashire mill towns.

A lot of what happens is brushed under the carpet because:

A. Most people in Britain have never been to Stoneyholme, Blackburn with Darwen, Oldham etc and wouldn't believe that ghettos like this actually exist outside of Tower Hamlets, and

B. The government doesn't give a shit about working class, disaffected kids from the North of England.

Yes potentially An attention seeking troll on the windup or a male of Pakistani heritage as you say, I’ve seen many such cases on facebook under posts about this topic leaving insensitive comments or calling the victims names like whores or slags etc

I don't think SummerFever is male. She does have a long posting history on a big topic range. Someone having imo unpleasant opinions doesn't necessarily mean they're male.

😂 at girls hanging around takeaways who shouldn't be.

Of course they shouldn't!

Their mother isn't at home, she's awol. Neither is their father, he's in prison. Perhaps the child is in care?

And that's what happens when you're desperate. Someone shows you attention and gives you a free chip naan, then abuses you.