Lucy letby

[bloomingbonkerz]

Do you think she did it ? Watched the documentary and I’m not sure she should have been convicted

https://whistleblowersblog.org/global-whistleblowers/2023-blueprint-whistleblowing-prizes-honor-bravery-and-integrity-of-11-whistleblowers/amp/

I came across a reference to this on FB.

My focus has been on the medical evidence, and somehow this passed me by.

I wonder what the implications of this are given the furore around the case now.

Moreover, the odd insulin tests were found by trawling through many tests of many types (not just insulin) of many babies for any odd results. The chance of finding some odd results this way is much higher than just the chance that a given test on a given baby gives odd results.

Yes, quite an event!

On the other hand, the Compassion in Care charity for whistleblowers refused to engage with the Chester consultants:

Compassion in Care, which was founded to support informers who speak out, said Letby’s accusers did not exhibit any of the usual behaviour displayed by those blowing the whistle on malpractice or criminal activity.

Eileen Chubb, who founded Compassion in Care in 2003 and was one of the ‘Bupa7’, the first group to use whistleblowing law in the UK, said: “There were a number of red flags.

“We’d never come across a whistleblower who, if backed into a corner by an employer or the NHS, hadn’t dialled 999 when people’s lives had been at risk.

“That’s what we found staggering. It stood out like a sore thumb, especially in a case where there were such serious concerns. I’ve never seen a whistleblower who thought babies were being harmed who left it for more than a week. But in this case, they left it for a number of years.
...

Mrs Chubb, who blew the whistle on colleagues who were abusing frail residents of a Bupa-run home in Bromley, Kent, in 1997, said her charity had since dealt with 14,000 whistleblowers, and said certain patterns were always present.

“Straight away on day one as soon as the verdict came through we all said, these are not whistleblowers,” she said. “The whole thing looked really suspicious to us, they didn’t meet any of the criteria. A lot of the detail which wasn’t there.

“Because we deal with health and social care, you see patterns that are always there.

“Most whistleblowers would say to you ‘I can remember the moment when this first happened’ and it’s ingrained into your memory like a hot iron, the detail and what you saw but that was not there in this case. All of it is completely wrong.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/01/lucy-letby-whistleblowers-red-flags-charity-testimony/

Repeating inflammatory language, repeating opinions as if they are incontrovertible and stating the same few things over and over instead of engaging with valid points is pretty insulting- and that is before we get to accusations from the pro guilty lobby about why people may think there is a moj here. So yes, I hope somewhere in the system there is some critical thinking going on such as helped to identify previous miscarriages of justice.

Not sure that is actually true, didn’t they lie to her about competencies & she was first to be done they kept the reason of her isolation secret for over 2 months, she only found out when the RCM wrote to her

Yes. The hospital consulted lawyers before taking her off the ward. They made two important points:

1. Because the unit was being downgraded, it would never be possible to put any changes down to removing her.

1. She would have a potential claim for constructive dismissal.

So they knew they weren't doing things right, but they decided to swallow the risk since you wouldn't have to pay a nurse much for a constructive dismissal claim.

I doubt she will ever work for the NHS or the hospital again, or revive her NMC membership, but if she does I am sure she'll defend herself from any sharp practice - she won't trust institutions to do things by the book again.

"a pattern emerges" -- you'd be surprised at how easily odd patterns can arise by chance. E.g. in a group of 23 random people, the chance that two share a birthday is over 50%. And while the chance of odd pattern around any particular nurse is small, the chance of it arising for some nurse somewhere is much larger, because there are so many nurses. So the fact that some nurse somewhere had a pattern is no more remarkable than the fact that some person somewhere won the lottery. We can't just take the unluckiest nurse each year and jail them for life. Also, the chance of a given pattern, assuming events are random, is not the same as the chance that events are random given that you saw a pattern. Just as, the chance that an animal has four legs, given that it's a dog, is not the same as the chance that it's a dog given that it has four legs. So, the chance that a nurse is innocent, given the pattern, is not the same as the chance of seeing the pattern if the nurse is innocent. The former depends on the baseline probability that the nurse is innocent, which is near-100% given the extreme rarity of killer nurses. Odd patterns can also arise from wrong data curation procedures. E.g. if incidents to review are chosen by those who suspect a nurse, they may downplay incidents when she was off-duty (even just unconsciously), artificially inflating her association with incidents.

In short, judging patterns by "gut feeling" is very error-prone. Science has specific procedures to ensure that claimed patterns reflect something real. The Royal Statistical Society produced a report, Healthcare serial killer or coincidence?, that explains the issues well for a lay audience.

I thought they found the insulin babies by chance? They never suspected her of those to begin with. The test results would've come back at the time-and she got away with those when it happened. And the tests were months apart-there is no way they'd both be wrong just those times. What will be the next excuse, the testing people had it in for her?

People don't want to hear this, they will dismiss any cause other than "Letby did it" just because that's what they've been told by the media. It's infuriating when there's very clear actual evidence to prove there wasn't any murders.

What is the evidence that there was no murders? Is there really evidence that shows there is no way it could have been murder, or is it just alternative explanations?

Or we just followed the trial at the time. If anything it's the not guilty people being brainwashed by the media who jumped on the innocence bandwagon.

Nope just theories-most of which don't stack up. It's very hard to say there was no deliberate harm in a case like this. Which is why I raise an eyebrow at Shoo Lee and his panel that they conveniently came back with no murders for every single case. But there was no chance he was ever going to say anything else right from the beginning. Never in a million years would he have been prepared to come back and say "actually we did find evidence of deliberate harm"-wouldn't happen. He's got something against the court/people who used his paper, it's all about him not LL.

And you accuse others of conspiracy theorising. Good Lord.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/feb/04/lucy-letby-convictions-what-did-the-expert-panel-find

At some point I’ll read up on their methodology.

Shoo Lee's evidence.

Even her defence witness said most of their theories were already dismissed in court. Why is it Mike Hall can't rule out deliberate harm and has no explanation for some of the babies yet Shoo Lee apparently does? It's not a conspiracy for an expert to have a big ego. It IS a conspiracy to think 7 consultants all got together to scapegoat an innocent nurse (at the same time as junior doctors were calling her nurse death conveniently) AND got the police and medical experts to go along with it for years.

There are alternative explanations for the deaths and collapses. The evidence for the deaths being murders or deliberate harm is sketchy.

Insulin: disputed; test interference likely - similar results received for baby with congenital hyperinsulinism
Traumatic injury: disputed; no signs of external injury and other possible mechanisms exist
Intravenous injection of air: disputed; rashes =/= air embolus
Air injected into stomach; bizarre - even Dewi Evans doesn’t believe this one any more

How do they not stack up?

He was an independent professional, as are all of the experts on the panel, they aren't getting paid. If they found evidence of murder they would have said that. What do you think they would get out of making this stuff up?

Yes I agree, but people will still spout misinformation even after all this time. They hear something once and have no idea of any of the new information that has since come to light.

An alternative explanation is not the same as evidence no murder took place. There will almost always be an alternative explanation in healthcare cases like this.

What makes his evidence the ‘truth’ more than anyone else’s?

It's ridiculous that 90% of you supporting her didn't even follow the trial! Yet think you know everything. Do you understand that things get tested in court and that experts get cross-examined and that the new panel have had none of that? He set out to find alternative explanations for everything because he thinks they misused his paper. He's not prepared to say "oh well turns out you WERE right" that's why.

Well it isn't just Shoo Lee is it?

The pathologists that did the autopsies found the deaths to be natural causes

The outside experts that were brought to the hospital to investigate the deaths found them to be natural causes and a poorly run ward

The 22 international experts found them to be natural causes + poor medical care

On the other hand you have a retired doctor Dewi Evans who concluded it was murder after ten minutes (with a nice well paid job to land if he did so) and was given cherry picked incidents to look at chosen by the very doctors whose careers were on the line....

Well it’s certainly more plausible than air embolism and splinting the diaphragm with air.

Over 250 handover sheets in chronological order.