Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Lucy letby

1000 replies

bloomingbonkerz · 08/02/2026 15:58

Do you think she did it ? Watched the documentary and I’m not sure she should have been convicted

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
EyeLevelStick · 10/02/2026 20:31

H202too · 10/02/2026 20:20

But did you have initials of collapsed patients next to it?

Can you provide a source for this too please? I’ve read this a few times but never found a source with details.

MrsChristmasHasResigned · 10/02/2026 20:37

Charlize43 · 10/02/2026 17:14

I was at work today and now that most of my colleagues have had a chance to watch the Netflix documentary, the afternoon was spent discussing it. I found it interesting that three of them who previously felt that she might be innocent had changed their minds and felt that she might somehow be guilty. When I asked why, they felt that the footage of the police interrogation and arrest had changed their minds. One colleague said that Letby came across as someone quite calculated in her responses. She also felt the reaction to her arrest was one of 'someone resigned to their guilt.' She feels that an innocent person would have protested more, reacted more loudly, resisted with a sense of injustice, whereas Letby's demeanour was one of 'the gig is up' - to use her words.

Has anyone else done a 180?

I think I preferred the BBC documentary on Lucy Letby (Panorama?) which felt less contrived. The digitalised friend and Baby 'Zoe''s mother have left me wondering how much of that was scripted for dramatic effect - clearly to show the two sides.

That is interesting - to me she looked like someone in shock, worn down and overloaded. I know there is considerable research showing that people who are innocent often do not behave "as expected" because they know they are innocent and dont think they have anything to prove. Whereas guilty people are often acutely aware of what they are presenting and are trying to manipulate the narrative. Remember the poor husband of Nicola Bully and all the online shit directed at him because he did not "look" innocent? And there are at least 2 parents who were all over tv wailing and crying about their childs disappearance who turned out to be guilty of murdering them.

WongandLynch · 10/02/2026 20:38

TheIceBear · 10/02/2026 20:01

I suppose that is true in a way. No one would be exempt from finding something strange in their room if someone barged in at 5 in the morning with no warning and searched their home . That said I still find it very odd she had them stashed with “keep” written on it when that’s the opposite of what anyone should do and their is no good reason to “keep” them . It’s not clear evidence of guilt though I agree

I don’t find that weird at all. I have a box of books waiting to go to the charity shop in a box marked kitchen because it’s a box I previously used to pack kitchen stuff when moving. The box could have been marked keep long before she used it for those papers.

TheIceBear · 10/02/2026 20:40

WongandLynch · 10/02/2026 20:38

I don’t find that weird at all. I have a box of books waiting to go to the charity shop in a box marked kitchen because it’s a box I previously used to pack kitchen stuff when moving. The box could have been marked keep long before she used it for those papers.

That’s totally different. There is nothing wrong with keeping books meant for the charity shop in your house

Petrolitis · 10/02/2026 20:40

Even during the reporting of the initial trial I was skeptical that she was guilty. It was all a bit too Sally Clarke for my liking.

Now so much more has come out and that Dr Dewi Evans is clearly a wrong un too.

WongandLynch · 10/02/2026 20:42

TheIceBear · 10/02/2026 20:40

That’s totally different. There is nothing wrong with keeping books meant for the charity shop in your house

I’m talking about the box being marked keep specifically. It could have been marked that for something else before she used it for the papers. I agree she shouldn’t have kept them but then most of them weren’t relating to the victims so I’m not sure how much can be read into her having them anyway.

HattieJ2 · 10/02/2026 20:44

Oftenaddled · 10/02/2026 20:10

I haven't seen that anywhere but interested if you can point me to it.

It was on the panorama about Letby

dragonexecutive · 10/02/2026 20:48

MrsChristmasHasResigned · 10/02/2026 20:37

That is interesting - to me she looked like someone in shock, worn down and overloaded. I know there is considerable research showing that people who are innocent often do not behave "as expected" because they know they are innocent and dont think they have anything to prove. Whereas guilty people are often acutely aware of what they are presenting and are trying to manipulate the narrative. Remember the poor husband of Nicola Bully and all the online shit directed at him because he did not "look" innocent? And there are at least 2 parents who were all over tv wailing and crying about their childs disappearance who turned out to be guilty of murdering them.

Likewise rape victims. People come out with the same ignorant shit about how if it was them, they would have behaved like x, y or z. They would have screamed, run, fought, or never would have been in that situation. But then if it happened to them they would have done x, y or z afterwards like a perfect victim - reported it immediately, perfectly preserved all evidence, cried the perfect amount (not too much, not too little), articulated themselves precisely and never have been numb or confused or in shock. Or heaven forbid, have had a sex life prior to the rape.

I really really hate people who pronounce on the guilt or innocence, truthfulness or not, of other people based on such provably false utter idiotic bullshit. People who are that fucking stupid shouldn't be allowed on juries for any kind of crime.

It is no better than people who stabbed women with needles for hours to identify which ones were witches based on how much they screamed.

dragonexecutive · 10/02/2026 20:50

EyeLevelStick · 10/02/2026 20:31

Can you provide a source for this too please? I’ve read this a few times but never found a source with details.

Of course they can't provide a source for their disinformation.

HattieJ2 · 10/02/2026 20:50

I just watched the panorama on this and alot of what people are talking about here as alternative explanations was explored at the original trial - I actually came away thinking what a bunch of chancers the “international
panel” are

experts in uk well qualified In their positions confirmed the insulin test

and I can’t believe Modi saying could be where the baby was pulled out that injured the liver - oops love it was a cesarian with no birth trauma

im in even less doubt now about guilt and back where I started off - nothing new to see here in terms of evidence just well searched alternatives some of which have already been dismissed by the juries

I think mark McDonald is over confident - I think he’s got so far he can’t back track now

MrsChristmasHasResigned · 10/02/2026 20:51

dragonexecutive · 10/02/2026 20:48

Likewise rape victims. People come out with the same ignorant shit about how if it was them, they would have behaved like x, y or z. They would have screamed, run, fought, or never would have been in that situation. But then if it happened to them they would have done x, y or z afterwards like a perfect victim - reported it immediately, perfectly preserved all evidence, cried the perfect amount (not too much, not too little), articulated themselves precisely and never have been numb or confused or in shock. Or heaven forbid, have had a sex life prior to the rape.

I really really hate people who pronounce on the guilt or innocence, truthfulness or not, of other people based on such provably false utter idiotic bullshit. People who are that fucking stupid shouldn't be allowed on juries for any kind of crime.

It is no better than people who stabbed women with needles for hours to identify which ones were witches based on how much they screamed.

Yes, having treated trauma for 20+ years I can attest that no one really knows what they would do in desperate situations and no one can say what is the "right" way to react or present yourself.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 10/02/2026 20:52

HattieJ2 · 10/02/2026 20:50

I just watched the panorama on this and alot of what people are talking about here as alternative explanations was explored at the original trial - I actually came away thinking what a bunch of chancers the “international
panel” are

experts in uk well qualified In their positions confirmed the insulin test

and I can’t believe Modi saying could be where the baby was pulled out that injured the liver - oops love it was a cesarian with no birth trauma

im in even less doubt now about guilt and back where I started off - nothing new to see here in terms of evidence just well searched alternatives some of which have already been dismissed by the juries

I think mark McDonald is over confident - I think he’s got so far he can’t back track now

So explain the liver injury to me.

Charlize43 · 10/02/2026 20:52

dragonexecutive · 10/02/2026 20:48

Likewise rape victims. People come out with the same ignorant shit about how if it was them, they would have behaved like x, y or z. They would have screamed, run, fought, or never would have been in that situation. But then if it happened to them they would have done x, y or z afterwards like a perfect victim - reported it immediately, perfectly preserved all evidence, cried the perfect amount (not too much, not too little), articulated themselves precisely and never have been numb or confused or in shock. Or heaven forbid, have had a sex life prior to the rape.

I really really hate people who pronounce on the guilt or innocence, truthfulness or not, of other people based on such provably false utter idiotic bullshit. People who are that fucking stupid shouldn't be allowed on juries for any kind of crime.

It is no better than people who stabbed women with needles for hours to identify which ones were witches based on how much they screamed.

Do you realise how unbalanced you sound?

I was just reporting back on my afternoon at work and the opinions of my coworkers.

Maybe see your GP about getting treatment for your anger issues.

SpringTimeIsRingTime · 10/02/2026 21:03

SB1967 · 08/02/2026 17:14

I always assume people who go no comment are guilty.
I realise this is possibly unfair but what do they expect ? It's a terrible look.

Their lawyers probably advise them to say "no comment".

EyeLevelStick · 10/02/2026 21:04

HattieJ2 · 10/02/2026 20:50

I just watched the panorama on this and alot of what people are talking about here as alternative explanations was explored at the original trial - I actually came away thinking what a bunch of chancers the “international
panel” are

experts in uk well qualified In their positions confirmed the insulin test

and I can’t believe Modi saying could be where the baby was pulled out that injured the liver - oops love it was a cesarian with no birth trauma

im in even less doubt now about guilt and back where I started off - nothing new to see here in terms of evidence just well searched alternatives some of which have already been dismissed by the juries

I think mark McDonald is over confident - I think he’s got so far he can’t back track now

and I can’t believe Modi saying could be where the baby was pulled out that injured the liver - oops love it was a cesarian with no birth trauma

An in-labour, fast emergency c-section of triplets? Are you quite sure you know more than Neena Modi, Professor of Neonatal Medicine?

HattieJ2 · 10/02/2026 21:05

MistressoftheDarkSide · 10/02/2026 20:52

So explain the liver injury to me.

You’ll have to watch it and hear it from the experts - they can explain it all for you. I’m pretty sure that even defence witness agreed but I’d have to look back

in fact the defence witness agreed with several conclusions of prosecution on a couple of babies - points towards why they weren’t called

it’s quite clear in this thread people are lapping up the new panel evidence when some of it’s not new and has been rejected already by the jury - and also don’t forget the “new panel” are presenting it to the public without cross examination

staceyflack · 10/02/2026 21:05

I am a nurse and a Midwife of many years experience and I absolutely believe she is guilty. There are some things in the documentary (which i watched for the first time today) that there is absolutely no reasonable professional explanation for. She also blatantly lies multiple times. I feel sorry for her and her family as she must be very unwell. But not as sorry as i feel for the murdered babies and their families. My thoughts are that the isolation and bullying that she likely experienced at work made her feel powerless and internally brought out a need in her to reclaim and excercise power. Truly tragic 😔

HattieJ2 · 10/02/2026 21:07

staceyflack · 10/02/2026 21:05

I am a nurse and a Midwife of many years experience and I absolutely believe she is guilty. There are some things in the documentary (which i watched for the first time today) that there is absolutely no reasonable professional explanation for. She also blatantly lies multiple times. I feel sorry for her and her family as she must be very unwell. But not as sorry as i feel for the murdered babies and their families. My thoughts are that the isolation and bullying that she likely experienced at work made her feel powerless and internally brought out a need in her to reclaim and excercise power. Truly tragic 😔

Ooo can I ask what makes you believe it (I do too)

it’s just interesting to hear from a nurse midwif e

2021x · 10/02/2026 21:07

The responses are interesting on this thread.

Noone has any claim to knowledge of the medical care of prem-babies in hospital. I also strongly suspect if they did they would not comment as they woudl have to examine the notes before they did. Therefore any comments about the deaths of the babies are not useful.

People have also no idea of how a "guilty" person would act if they were in the situation LL was in. I was implicated in the death of a patient and it was a terrifying and surreal experience. The patient had died about 6 months before so I had to rely on the notes I wrote at the time and I am sure that if there was a video of the interview I had with the investigator there would be a myriad of interpretations. So we can't make a decision about her guilt based on how we would work in those cirucmstances.

This is why I am focused on the enviroment that Lucy was working in. We have a lot of contemporaneous information about what the issues were on the ward. In summary it was deemed to be unfit due to 1) the lack of oversight from the doctors (there was active recuritment for 2 consultants) 2) the high turnover of nursing staff c) The incorrect root cause analysis used for incident investigation.

To me these all seem very significant points as to why the babies were not safe on the ward. It is entirely possible that LL took advantage of a poorly staffed ward in which to commit crimes, but there simply is not enough evidence to demonstrate that the babies were deliberately killed over the risks of very poorly babies on an understaffed ward.

It is important for everyone safety that clinicians are treated fairly including an taking the working environment are taken into account if you are going to accuse someone of murdering babies. If clinicans feel that they are not valued, listened to or given a fair hearing it creates an atmosphere that ultimately put patients at risk.

HattieJ2 · 10/02/2026 21:10

2021x · 10/02/2026 21:07

The responses are interesting on this thread.

Noone has any claim to knowledge of the medical care of prem-babies in hospital. I also strongly suspect if they did they would not comment as they woudl have to examine the notes before they did. Therefore any comments about the deaths of the babies are not useful.

People have also no idea of how a "guilty" person would act if they were in the situation LL was in. I was implicated in the death of a patient and it was a terrifying and surreal experience. The patient had died about 6 months before so I had to rely on the notes I wrote at the time and I am sure that if there was a video of the interview I had with the investigator there would be a myriad of interpretations. So we can't make a decision about her guilt based on how we would work in those cirucmstances.

This is why I am focused on the enviroment that Lucy was working in. We have a lot of contemporaneous information about what the issues were on the ward. In summary it was deemed to be unfit due to 1) the lack of oversight from the doctors (there was active recuritment for 2 consultants) 2) the high turnover of nursing staff c) The incorrect root cause analysis used for incident investigation.

To me these all seem very significant points as to why the babies were not safe on the ward. It is entirely possible that LL took advantage of a poorly staffed ward in which to commit crimes, but there simply is not enough evidence to demonstrate that the babies were deliberately killed over the risks of very poorly babies on an understaffed ward.

It is important for everyone safety that clinicians are treated fairly including an taking the working environment are taken into account if you are going to accuse someone of murdering babies. If clinicans feel that they are not valued, listened to or given a fair hearing it creates an atmosphere that ultimately put patients at risk.

Edited

But there is

it was presented at the trial

she was found guilty

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 10/02/2026 21:11

Charlize43 · 10/02/2026 20:52

Do you realise how unbalanced you sound?

I was just reporting back on my afternoon at work and the opinions of my coworkers.

Maybe see your GP about getting treatment for your anger issues.

There’s absolutely no need to be so nasty, passive aggressive and personal.

You were reporting what your co-workers said. She was giving her view that what they said was horrible, for a number of reasons.

I agree with every word of Dragonexecutive’s post. There is a very strong similarity between dismissing rape victims because they didn’t behave in the expected way, and thinking Lucy Letby is guilty because she didn’t behave as they, having no familiarity either professional or personal with how miscarriage of justice victims actually behave, think she should have done.

It astonishes me, this willingness to pronounce on innocence of guilt based on behaviour in an extreme and terrifying situation, by people who have absolutely no clue what it is like to be in that situation and apparently no imagination either.

I don’t know what you think of your coworkers but they sound like dicks to me.

2021x · 10/02/2026 21:12

HattieJ2 · 10/02/2026 21:10

But there is

it was presented at the trial

she was found guilty

Noone on this forum can.

HattieJ2 · 10/02/2026 21:13

2021x · 10/02/2026 21:12

Noone on this forum can.

?

HattieJ2 · 10/02/2026 21:14

If you mean decide her guilt I agree

but we don’t need to - she’s already been found guilty by 2 juries and 2 high court judges

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.