Lucy letby

[bloomingbonkerz]

Do you think she did it ? Watched the documentary and I’m not sure she should have been convicted

If they were not in the timeframe, why was the information even sent to DE?

It is also significant to know that these babies were still in a vulnerable state or they wouldn't have been on the ward.

That doesn’t change those babies status as still being treated at the downgraded level when people use the argument of the downgrade to explain why deaths stopped when the downgrade was irrelevant to them

I did say up to a month but I didn’t know it was within a week

As to all of the babies she allegedly killed being treated on the downgraded version of the ward, that is also untrue. Some might have been.

Baby A - no, as a multiple birth needing one-to-one intensive care beyond 24 hours.
Baby C - no, as a multiple birth needing one-to-one intensive care beyond 24 hours.
Baby E - no, as a multiple birth needing one-to-one intensive care beyond 24 hours.
Baby O - no, as a multiple birth needing one-to-one intensive care beyond 24 hours.
Baby P - no, as a multiple birth needing one-to-one intensive care beyond 24 hours.

Baby D - it was confirmed by the mother's lawyers that the child should have been in a level 3 (not just a level 2) unit, because of delivery lasting 60 hours after waters broke without antibiotics

Baby I - seems unlikely they would have kept a child with suspected bowel issues and respiratory distress syndrome at the level 2 unit, and transferred her between level 3 and level 1, but this is the only case where there is no clear contraindication so potentially a grey area.

I'm afraid that whatever your information source is on this issue, it's not reliable.

She hasn’t been alleged to kill them she’s been convicted of killing them so not alleged

Both alleged and convicted - I'm happy to use either.

Can you see that these children would not have been in a ward with only short-term emergency ICU, though? That is the main point.

I stand corrected about the levels - sure I read that

but the ward still took and had babies above level 1 - it wasn’t as clear cut as it looks - like after 7th June strict level 1 and those already there stayed if couldn’t be transferred

The ward would have ended up with a small number of babies above level 1 in emergencies, before they could be transferred elsewhere, but that is obviously going to be very different from planning to have level 2 and level 3 children born at the hospital and treating them there for days, weeks or months.

Surely any unexpected deaths on the unit should be thoroughly investigated, regardless of Lucy Letbys presence or not.

And if you were arguing it from another angle you’d say that it was not as clear cut and level 2 and 3 babies were still treated after 7th June and some remained from before

As far as I am aware, they were all thoroughly investigated, and in this case some of those within a time frame were sent to DE, who discounted any that died (with the exception of one, might be two) when LL was not on shift.

Remember that initially nobody that investigated though that any of these babies had been murdered.

Yes, this is the whole problem. If the unit was serious about the safety of babies on the wards, every single death should be under a microscope.

Not at all, no.

The numbers just don't stack up.

The major risk at the NNU was to children whom the hospital monitored during their mothers' pregnancies, knew in advance would need ICU care, and admitted. These children typically then died in their first week (when babies are most vulnerable).

Children A, C, E, O and P would never have been born there. Child D would have been transferred in utero in the early stages of labour. This cohort wouldn't have ended up at Chester in any circumstances.

Two of the children on the indictment sheet would quite possibly have been born there because they were emergency labour situations (though the parents might already have been advised to go elsewhere. One was baby H. Lucy Letby was not convicted on any harm in his case (and he survived). The other was baby K. While Lucy Letby has been convicted of dislodging his tube (on very shaky "eyewitness" evidence), his death has been attributed to natural causes, with the hospital he was transferred to highly critical of his care at Chester.

We know that children have died after transfer out of Chester in the intervening years, as we would expect - quitely like a number of them after emergency labour like these two cases.

Go on - have a go arguing it like I said..bet you can

This is one of the reasons that so many people believe that the coviction is unsafe.

If the other babies that died, died with the same symptons of those that LL is convicted of then that creates more doubt.

No. The death rate would be expected to rise or fall with acuity, and that's what happened.

There's no argument I can think of against that.

That archive link to the Telegraph story about babies who died or collapsed at Chester after Lucy Letby left the unit is working at last, for anyone who wasn't able to read it

https://archive.is/jyIt5

I suppose that is true in a way. No one would be exempt from finding something strange in their room if someone barged in at 5 in the morning with no warning and searched their home . That said I still find it very odd she had them stashed with “keep” written on it when that’s the opposite of what anyone should do and their is no good reason to “keep” them . It’s not clear evidence of guilt though I agree

Is this the one that two sets of parents said is grossly misrepresented?

Thanks for that article @Oftenaddled
So an analogy would be that in a particular village, several men in their 70's are found dead at home over a few months .Autopsies show no foul play but the police are convinced there is a murderer at large. They arrest the postman who is known to be odd, after all he's a train spotter and keeps a pet bearded dragon. He actually visited each of the murdered mens homes in the week of their death ( doing his job as a postman) He's convicted of the murders and sentenced to life imprisonment. Two months after his arrest there is another death, then another. Police are not interested in investigating because " the killer has been caught.
Far fetched? Ridiculous?
There's no proof any of the men were murdered!
Yes
Exactly my point

I haven't seen that anywhere but interested if you can point me to it.

But did you have initials of collapsed patients next to it?

Would they? Do you have a source for this?

Perhaps it meant keep, as opposed to putting in the recycling, because it needed to be put into the confidential waste.

Guilty.