Lucy letby

[bloomingbonkerz]

Do you think she did it ? Watched the documentary and I’m not sure she should have been convicted

Yeah she was passionate about being in room 1 with the sickest babies. Not so passionate about doing feeds or anything "boring" or where there was no drama.

The public inquiry was told that Dr U provided Letby with confidential information about the efforts to investigate the cause of unusual and unexpected deaths on the neonatal unit after she was removed from it in July 2016.

From: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/07/doctor-secured-lucy-letby-hospital-placement-while-she-was-suspected-of

He also sent her confidential emails about baby N that were exchanges between him and other doctors.

So the content in the messages and emails was different to the what she discussed with other nurses in messages about the babies.

I do want to discuss

no rudeness

Maybe, having seen a baby die after being incorrectly intubated by a doctor, she was genuinely concerned about the sickest babies.

Gosh, it’s nuts to see how much popular opinion has changed here. The few of us who have been stating the issues with the case all along used to be called horrendous things in here. Very glad it’s all changing and hope she gets some good news soon.

Anyone can claim anything on the internet. You could be making shit up, you could be psychotic and delusional, you could genuinely believe she’s guilty - Dewi Evans is certain she’s guilty but he doesn’t actually know.

So you’re either talking bollocks or sailing perilously close to the wind.

Sure, and he shouldn't have done that, but the place was obviously a hive of gossip from the Thirlwall Inquiry accounts, so I'm not surprised.

I'd have more sympathy for him discussing baby N, a baby they both cared for who was on the ward for a few weeks. I understand why baby N's parents would be angry now, thinking she was a murderer, but talking about your patients / clients / students privately online is pretty normal

A few journalists like Judith Moritz and Shaun Lintern seemed very sure the new charges would stick and prove Lucy Letby guilty forever more. It's fairly likely they were working from leaks from doctors at Chester and Liverpool. What people don't always realise is that these leaks from people with skin in the game, police, doctors, expert witnesses, aren't free on manipulation or at least unconscious bias.

The fact she put little asterisks in her diary on the days the babies died - I can’t see why anybody thinks she’s innocent. She didn’t even deny it, she said she put them there to reflect on when the babies were really poorly.

Her reason sounds sensible to me. I'd want to be treated by a nurse who reflected on her work and thought about how to save lives

Aren't you a charmer?

Nailed it - IME there are an unfortunate number of doctors in the NHS who believe they are god like and who will work very hard to show why they are not responsible for anything that goes wrong. Why the doctors on the unit did not face disciplinary or professional charges is a mystery to me when their behaviour came to light.

People who think she’s innocent: what evidence would there need to be for you to think she’s guilty?

Or would you only believe it if she confessed?

So you're 100% sure she's innocent then?

It's amazing how saint-like she's being made out to be on here. And yet her reason for wanting to be in room 1 (with child C at least) was because she thought she should be given another dying baby to get over the one she just lost (because that's what happened at Liverpool apparently) add that to the fact she never seemed to be surprised or question why all these babies were dying around her. Even after having years to think about it in police interviews-just a complete absence of wanting to get to the bottom of what really happened.

She was found guilty because the evidence that was presented to the court convinced the jury to convict her.

Whether you think she’s innocent is neither here nor there.

I am on the fence. I don't think anyone on the MN forum has enough expertiese or knowledge on the case to say either way.

For me to think she is guilty there would have to be questions answered about

1. Why the well documented insufficient doctors oversight on the ward was discounted as the reason for an increase in deaths?
2. Why was criminal intent assumed over incompetence?
3. Why did she not go through a period of supervision first?
4. Why the patients that died on the ward when she wasn't on shift were not considered suspicious?

I assume these questions have been answered somewhere in the investigation so if anyone has them I would like to hear the result.

I would say that if you had comparable experts to Mark McDonald's team, in number and quality, saying they were fairly sure it was murder, that would make a difference.

(Although assuming opinion remained divided, there would still be grounds for reasonable doubt. But that would feel more like a technicality)

This wouldn't apply, by the way, to the insulin babies since there is no more reason to suspect Lucy Letby of poisoning them, if they were poisoned. And a lot of the queries about placing Lucy Letby in the frame for other murders and injuries would remain, particularly for children A, C, D, H, K, and P where her presence or ability to act unobserved are in doubt.

She did question why the children were dying around her, both after the first group around the time of baby I and after the death of the triplets.

She's even been criticised on these threads for claiming she reflected on these events

But of course she would also have known about the other deaths and collapses on the ward for which she wasn't present.

So you'd separate out the insulin cases because your logic is that those could be another serial killer? now I know that nothing will convince you.

Why aren’t you not allowed to say why you think she is guilty? Who/ what is stopping you? Bit random.

That sounds fairly normal unless you have a terrible view of any medic that wants to work in an acute specialty

Given there is a third dubious alleged insulin case, the validity of those tests are open to question.

The whole reason there is uproar over this case is because all the medical evidence is questionable at best, and it needs to be re analysed. Especially the alleged liver injury which she apparently managed by the power of thought alone.

Would you truly accept a guilty verdict for murder for yourself just because doctors "thought" you did it and you were there? Because that is essentially how this case was built.

Would it not have been better for the doctors to just keep quiet if that was the case? They were the ones who noticed the spike in unexplained collapses and deaths and raised it with hospital management then got it reported to the police.

If the insulin cases were the only cases, there would be nothing linking them to Lucy Letby.

So perhaps a better way of phrasing it would be, I wouldn't be convinced if only the insulin cases were confirmed as deliberate harm and nothing else.

I don't see how I could be, logically