Time for Women with Talent to Take Back Older Female Roles in Pantos

[SpringTimeIsRingTime]

Panto Dames have been a thing since 1806 when a certain Mr Simmons decided to play Mother Goose as a Witch (how original) rather than as a caring grandmother figure. Nowadays panto dames are mainly played by gay men in drag.

I think it's time for talented actresses to take back elder female roles from the tired tropes played by men since the Victorian era.

And if female actors don’t want to be referred to as actresses? Would you respect that?

That's their choice and I have no objection to any actress calling herself an actor. However, I'm sure none would refuse an Oscar for best actress...

You read the entire thread from beginning to end in two minutes?

You haven’t answered the question.

This is the stupidest thread on here this week! Honestly...

Your opinion on imposing your choice of outdated language onto the acting profession is - er - interesting. Surely it should be for the performers themselves to decide what they'd like to be called.

Why would anyone want Prince Charming to be played by a grown woman?
(other than men?)

What about young girls going to see Cinderella?
I found it utterly bizarre as a child that the Prince was a grown woman old enough to be my mother.
What girl wants their mother to play Prince Charming?

I only found out much later why it happened at all - for the male gaze.

Bringing it back makes no sense whatsoever.

https://screenrant.com/oscars-best-actress-winners-indisputable/

https://www.britannica.com/art/Academy-Award-for-best-actress

https://people.com/see-every-best-actress-oscar-winner-11688314

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/story/academy-award-best-actress

https://ew.com/greatest-best-actress-oscar-winners-11688282

https://www.adducation.info/general-knowledge-movies-tv/best-actress-oscar-winners/

Just a few papers and magazines calling females actresses.

I'm not imposing my choice of word on anyone.
I've already said people are free to call themselves whatever they like.
Some actresses, probably in my age bracket, don't have an issue with the term at all.

I had already read it all.
Why make incorrect assumptions.

Now please could you point to the transphobia, thank you

There you are. Hoist by your own petard.* *

"Gay men who do drag" eh? So not only are you assuming that all artists who perform the role of a panto Dame are gay and proudly blatantly misogynistic, you are also assuming that straight people don't dress up in drag for theatrical performances. So it is not the fact that men instead of women who play Dames that you are riled up about, it is because you believe they are either gay or drag queens or both.

I've just had a look back through the thread as there was another comment of yours that I wanted to quote and I can't find it, so I can therefore only assume that it was in the post of yours that has been deleted by MNHQ. Seems like other people must have found it as offensive as I did and reported it.

Oh yes, and why did you post a link to a DM article not once, but twice? The Daily Mail. That bastion of tolerance, inclusivity and LGBTQ etc rights. 🙄

From your numerous posts it is abundantly clear that it is both homosexuals and drag artists who offend you, so don't go trying to hide behind a cloak of feminism and women's rights. You slipped up and gave the game away by calling female performers 'actresses'. We can see you.

I'm leaving the thread now, I have a rehearsal to go to and I doubt whether the thread will improve any while I'm out.

Palladium panto last year -

CATHERINE TATE
JULIAN CLARY
PAUL ZERDIN
NIGEL HAVERS
JON CULSHAW
EMILY LANE
AMONIK MELACO
ROB MADGE

6 men and 2 women

And this replicates most of the big professional productions were pay is best.

It’s actually outrageous.

Wanting character roles based on older female figures to go to older actresses is homophobic?

By that "logic", roles representing homosexual men should be filled by older women because otherwise it's ageist, sexist and hetero phobic to declare them unsuitable.

Where on earth has anyone mentioned "trans" other than you crowbarring it in for your own reasons?

@taxi4ballet

Sorry you had to go to your taxi4ballet but you conveniently missed all the links to papers discussing best actress.

I am lost as how to someone using the term actress makes them transphobic.

😂LOL

Indeed, never seen a transman play the Dame.

Do you have trouble suspending disbelief? What is wrong with a woman playing Prince Charming?

I know you keep talking about it being about the male gaze but by pushing that point you keep missing the actual point and purpose of a pantomime. Part of the tradition is the subversion of gender roles.

Aldo, your insistence that panto dames are gay and misogynistic is homophobia.

The pantomime at my local theatre in 2021,2022,2023,2024,&2025

6 main characters
3 played by women (2 played by older women)
3 played by men

The cast changes most years too
🤷🏼‍♀️

So men in women’s clothing is comical?
How transphobic is that?

Eh? I genuinely don’t think you or @SpringTimeIsRingTimehave ever actually seen a pantomime.
Of if you have the not so subtle humour has gone over your head.

Yes the dame character is meant to be comical, and yes part of that humour lies in the fact that it’s a male character played by a male actor. And no, it’s not transphobic to find that character funny.

What about that is so hard to comprehend?

You need to go back and read what I've written instead twisting it to suit your narrative.

I've already said that not all men who play the panto dame are gay but many prominent gay men have played this role and I listed some. One of them even played panto dames for half a century. That's a great gig - for one man.

I couldn't care less if the men are gay, straight, bisexual, asexual or anything else they fancy. I care that they're men taking roles from women when there are already too few roles for women in theatre.

I also care that men in panto represent older women in a misogynistic way from the get-go. Mr Simmons turned nice old Mother Goose into a Witch after all.

I also don't think it's healthy for young children to see older women depicted in a negative way. I think that contributes to the overall negative view of older women in real life too. I think it's time to change.

I'd also like to see what the many many highly skilled and talented actresses in the country could do with the panto dame persona and some are already breaking that particular glass ceiling.
Oh yes they are!!!

They are not taking roles from women. These roles never belonged to women.

They are, and always have been, a male role written for male actors.
Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

I also prefer the term "actress" because it includes "female" - otherwise I'd have to keep referring to "female actors" and "male actors" which frankly I find very inefficient and awkward.

What a nonsense.

I use the term "actress" because it's the one I grew up with and as a woman, I personally have no issue with the word. I care far more about opportunities for women than arguing about a word borrowed from French - a language where every noun is either masculine or feminine.

I use it on this thread because it's far more efficient than repeatedly saying "female actors".