Time for Women with Talent to Take Back Older Female Roles in Pantos

[SpringTimeIsRingTime]

Panto Dames have been a thing since 1806 when a certain Mr Simmons decided to play Mother Goose as a Witch (how original) rather than as a caring grandmother figure. Nowadays panto dames are mainly played by gay men in drag.

I think it's time for talented actresses to take back elder female roles from the tired tropes played by men since the Victorian era.

The Fairy God mother is one of the minor parts and you well know that.

Fairy Godmother is a minor part? How do you figure that one out?!
I'd say she was a fairly integral part to the story.
Without her, poor old Cinders would still be scrubbing floors and mucking out chimneys instead of dancing at the ball.
She's not a minor part at all. Genuine question, have you actually been to many pantomimes?!

It’s clearly not accurate though is it? We go to two pantos a year- a big one in our nearest city and one performed by a theatre company at our local theatre.
I see that there are roles for older women. Your argument doesn’t hold up.

She is integral to the story but in panto the fairy godmother is a minor part.

Often played by someone from the chorus.

No it isn’t.
Im starting think that just like the op you’ve never actually seen a pantomime.

Great! that’s great news. It’s a shame the wider picture doesn’t replicate this

Wrong again. It’s always been a main part and in my experience has mainly been played by an older woman.

😂

So how often do you go to pantomimes then instead of just cry laugh emojing?

In Cinderella the main part is normally Buttons and closely followed depending on the cast by the Ugly sisters, Prince, Dandini and Cinderella next step down and unless they have cast a famous female as the star the fairy godmother would be a more minor part. I really do understand this industry very well.

Do you? Because you’re ignoring the fact that there are other pantomimes than those that attract big stars.
Perhaps you’d benefit from looking at local theatre and smaller theatre groups because you’re doing them a huge disservice with your sweeping generalisations.

I understand both provincial, west end and major cities and small towns as well as Am drams, I have experience with all types over many decades.

Instead of complaining about panto dames being played by men, why not put your money where your mouth is and get involved with organising your own community's panto next year? Write a new script or find a suitable older one you like. Add parts for older women. Sort out the casting.

Be the change you wish to see in the world and all that...

1806 isn’t Victorian times, it’s well before that.

Either way, it’s a very long standing tradition.

Panto dames are one of the main reasons we go to Panto. We actively avoid those who have done away with the dame. We also look for a Panto that has a principle boy, as this is also a tradition (the balancing of the dame role possibly) and many seem to have done away with this.

I enjoyed reading this comment so much that I'm imagining having it made into a framed quotation. Simply brilliant 😂

Oh dear I'm in danger of vanishing down a rabbit hole ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/2JZ6TSqnd480n90dzN77r1Q/where-does-pantomime-really-come-from

Haven't clicked on the link to read the article yet, but I think I recognise that Dame - is it Berwick Kaler?!
Love him if so - I never manage to catch a Wagon Wheel though 😂

In recent years?

yes recently and for decades.

It has got worse for female actors not better because the young male roles are often (not always but increasingly) played by men now and they used to always be played by women. Like Dandini etc.

Then why are you so dismissive of others experiences of local theatre?

Bloody hell, Tankflop. It's almost as if you think there is just one script for every well known panto story and they all have just those handful of characters.

Certainly in regard to amateur pantos there are absolutely dozens of scripts, many with a much larger numbers of roles and many more female ones (as most amateur groups always have more female members than men) or roles that can be either sex. Many of course write their own to suit who they have.

They just did Beauty and the Beast at our pro theatre. In addition to Belle, there was Agatha the Evil Sorcereress and Fairy Rose Red, neither bring minor parts, and the actress playing Agatha was the only 'name' in the cast and is 55.

This is just not true. The Commedia del' Arte, on which panto is based, often had a comedic older woman role but this developed into "fairy godmother" type roles, which are usually played by women. The panto dame, which does not have a Commedia del' Arte parallel, originated in 1806 as a male role. It is not supposed to represent a woman, but be very clearly a man in women's clothing.

I actually said, "that’s great" in reply to your post about your experience of seeing woman in the main roles in your local theatre. What’s dismissive about that?

However, this is not the norm.

Generally women have less roles and minor parts. Generally. Which is a problem. Dandini used to be played by a woman and the dames (ugly sisters) by men. Both parts gender reversed.

Here’s the first few pantos of Cinderella from 2025 that I found on google from 2024/2025. Main parts by sex.

*Edited to say waiting for the data to upload by ultimately it is very skewed towards male actors.

Amateur productions can include many more characters because the actors are unpaid. It is the fact that older women’s livelihoods can be affected, not just panto but, as I pasted earlier, women getting ousted from all sorts of jobs in the industry when they reach a certain age.

I am aware there are lots of scripts but in professional shows the trend towards both the Dame role and the principle boy both being played by men it leaves less opportunity for women. This is just factual really.

You've been incredibly dismissive. That one comment doesn't cancel all of the others. You're also missing a rather important point - the character of the Dame was never a female role to begin with. It is a male character written for a male actor.
For someone who is supposedly an 'expert' it's rather odd that you ignore that fact.