Time for Women with Talent to Take Back Older Female Roles in Pantos

[SpringTimeIsRingTime]

Panto Dames have been a thing since 1806 when a certain Mr Simmons decided to play Mother Goose as a Witch (how original) rather than as a caring grandmother figure. Nowadays panto dames are mainly played by gay men in drag.

I think it's time for talented actresses to take back elder female roles from the tired tropes played by men since the Victorian era.

Probably because the music for The Nutcracker was written by a Russian composer and the dances choreographed by Petipa, a French/Russian, and first performed at the Mariinsky Theatre in St Petersburg.

And no, Russian companies aren't performing in the UK, for obvious reasons.

British companies don't do that.

I see what you mean but I don't think pantos were necessarily designed to exclude women though there are definitely sexist elements.

Traditionally they were designed as a kids' thing to some extent, so not only adult-targeted.

Roles like Sleeping Beauty & Cinderella did get to sing etc though parts fairly passive, and roles like fairy godmother were positive.

It's worth noting principal boy actresses like Vesta Tilley, Ellaline Terriss etc had notable female fanbases too, they weren't purely popular with leering men.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.theguardian.com/music/2010/may/13/cross-dressing-women-musical-theatre&ved=2ahUKEwiky7WPisuSAxWCnf0HHUAyL08QFnoFCIABEAE&usg=AOvVaw2YTiWGl72iIa5Ns5TB4W1i

Yes, I thought that would be unlikely. Foreign companies doing it shouldn't but it's harder to stop. As you said,,Russian companies are not round here much anyway, for obvious reasons...

Well, I've run four different venues, in different parts of the country, and all of them did and are still doing very nicely thank you. In fact, many theatres are doing very well, particularly smaller venues, although despite tickets prices increasing most shows in the West End are selling very well.

Does the industry have problems? Yes. Is it in dire straits? Absolutely not.

Ah, well, you said THEATRE is in a dire way, not DRAMA.

I would agree that the West End is crammed with musicals (and has been for 25 years) but there have been a lot of very good dramas in the last couple of years with very good roles for women. Till The Stars Come Down transferred from the National was one particularly female-heavy play but there were many others. Sarah Snook did a one-man Dorian Gray. Giant was 3M 3F.

The National, the Globe, the RSC, Chichester are larger venues with lots of women playing male roles. The National and Globe are both run by wine, the RSC has a female and a male director.

Again, if you look at smaller venues, such as Orange Tree Richmond, there stage almost exclusively drama and everything they do is sold out. The prices are also reasonable and often with names in the cast.

YABU.
I love panto and it just wouldn't be the same without panto dames played by men.
#LeavePantoAlone

Panto's meant to be silly, silly! 😁

But companies performing in Britain don't have to be British

Ah but we were supposed to guess she didn't mean "all theatre" and just meant "the theatre she likes which is plays"

I thought most ballet companies these days were pretty international.

At one point in the '70s, we went to Goldilocks at Weymouth Pavilion, and they had real bearcubs on stage at one point. Wouldn't happen now, for the same reason we don't have circuses with animals any more.

I detest audience participation, so have never been keen on panto, but one year when my German boyfriend was over, I got him to sit through a panto on TV. I explained there are very set roles, like the dame, the principal boy, the fairy godmother, the baddy, regardless of whichever story it actually is, plus audience participation in terms "oh yes it is! Oh no it isn't!" and "look behind you!" And the general silliness is the whole point of it. I don't think he quite got it. (Nor Morris dancers, when I ended up accidentally at a Morris festival with him.) But I'm ambivalent about who plays a dame. I'm sure some female actors would fo it splendidly, but panto is very much about tradition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Linehan_(entertainer)

Here's our panto dame. Been the star of the show at the Grand Opera House in Belfast (which is right beside the Europa hotel and had suffered from the Europa's oft quoted claim to fame ) for decades.

The point you continue to ignore is that often the same character is specifically written to be played by a man. That is where the humour lies and is part of the traditional pantomime.

If a theatre company wants to write that role for a women, then they can. But it changes the dynamic of that particular character.

Err so you’re just annoyed that you don’t have an attractive man to look at when you’re at the theatre?
Also, do lesbians and bi sexual women not go to the theatre?

Yes, I get the impression OP doesn’t know as much about panto or Victorian culture as she has implied.

Also, have you ever been in the cheap seats at the theatre 😂 can barely see anything.

Where are you getting your “quotes” from?

Also, have you ever been in the cheap seats at the theatre 😂 can barely see anything.

In some theatres, yes, particularly the West End, but not all.

We will have to agree to disagree. Obviously ALW is doing well but most theatres including small ones in the London (this is not just a regional issue) are in real trouble. You can throw all the anecdotal evidence you want at me but the statistics tell a different story.

Give me your statistics then.

What roles have you played in the industry and for how long?

Where theatres ARE in trouble is building costs. Many of them need a lot of money spent on doing them up. But in terms of audience numbers, they continue to be on the rise in the UK in the regions not just the West End.

have a look for yourself if you are interested.

I go regularly to the theatre and they always seem to be full house.

Yes but production costs are rising so even with a full house, things are economically very challenging.

I am interested. Where can I see what roles you've played in the industry?

Older women playing a ridiculous silly character that is played by men, known to be men, to be even more of a ridiculous character

finally a positive and powerful move towards true equality