Time for Women with Talent to Take Back Older Female Roles in Pantos

[SpringTimeIsRingTime]

Panto Dames have been a thing since 1806 when a certain Mr Simmons decided to play Mother Goose as a Witch (how original) rather than as a caring grandmother figure. Nowadays panto dames are mainly played by gay men in drag.

I think it's time for talented actresses to take back elder female roles from the tired tropes played by men since the Victorian era.

Now that I'd go to see!

Which companies in the UK would they be?

I think it's both, really: they obviously have an ugly character, but with the simple visual that they are also physically very ugly as 'women'.

Pantomimes really aren't intended to be highbrow art to encourage you to engage your brain and consider the wider ramifications and deeper nuances of a highly visceral performance; as theatre goes, they're as subtle as a bin lorry.

I do work in theatre and I do know what I'm on about
Which is why I know using "theatre" and "straight plays" as synonyms for each other is problematic

You didn't say "straight plays are in trouble", you said "theatre"

If you can't see how it reads then it's on you

Imo panto can of course be played by gay men but traditionally drag (mainly done by gay men) is quite different in that men were trying to look feminine. The whole joke of the panto dame is that it's played by a galumphing older man- if it were played a feminine or androgynous man it wouldn't be so funny.

Nowadays drag has crossed to be more grotesquely mocking women, and that has seeped into panto when panto dames have gone for a more drag style performance. Neither is good

BTW, are you sure most UK panto dames now are gay men playing it drag-style?

It's quite uncomfortable to watch the Arabian and Chinese dances tbh

I've also seen it done where the Ugly Stepsisters are "ugly on the inside" as in because they are vain and selfish

The touring companies from other countries who perform on UK stages quite often do

Which countries? I know there have been controversies about Russian companies doing this.

If OP means "drag" as in "Drag Race" then it's not common at all, most pantos still have the "motherly figure who's clearly played by a man" version

Russian companies are very insistent on playing it the way it originally was played (not that many Russian ballet companies are being allowed to dance at the moment still)

I did see a production of Jack and The Beanstalk a few years ago where Jack was played by a woman, although the character was portrayed as female (Jack presumably short forJacqueline). I thought it worked quite well. No tights and tunic though, if I remember correctly she wore dungarees.

I recall seeing Una Maclean playing the Dame in panto at the McRobert Theatre in Stirling in '84. Very good she was too.

I think that many of the pantos in Scotland have moved away from having a woman playing the Principal Boy.

I believe that the most recent panto at the Adam Smith Theatre, Kirkcaldy didn't have a Principal Boy at all - the Princess was the leading character - but they did have a male Dame. The Dames up here are normally well-known comedians of either sex. The best known woman currently playing Dame roles would probably be Elaine C. Smith.

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/23821293.elaine-c-smith-says-feels-privileged-part-glasgow-panto/

Interesting, sounds like a good approach. I like giving the princess a bigger role, too.

Far too much cross dressing in Shakespeare! 🤣

I wonder how many here have heard of Margaret Hughes, or know her story and place in this discussion of acting.

Another interesting idea.

You mean...the first female actress in the 1600s?

Yes,,I didn't think drag style performances had become standard.

This controversial topic has been under discussion in ballet circles for many years. Some companies in the USA still perform the Arabian and Chinese dances in the Nutcracker that way (and there are a considerable number of versions), and since it is performed all over the world, no doubt international companies have their own versions. Yellowface is certainly not done by British companies. In fact the choreography, as well as the costumes and make-up, has been considerably changed in recent years. The music itself cannot be changed. It is Tchaikovsky - the classical music equivalent of Shakespeare.

The thing is though, a large number of ballet dancers are from different cultures, so if people don't like the idea of a white dancer performing the Chinese dance, shouldn't they also be objecting to a Japanese dancer performing as a Spanish gypsy?

Yes, and also the relevance of Edward Kynaston too, such an important time in the history of theatre and performance.

@SpringTimeIsRingTime Your interpretation of the Victorian era and the history of theatre is all over the place.

So not British companies then. Who are far more enlightened.

I don't disagree with someone doing a Chinese etc dance in the Nutcracker. It's yellowface I personally object to