To think that no racist ever admits they are a racist

[Sweetiedarling7]

“I’m not a racist but…”
I hear this so often. Does any racist ever come out and say they are a racist?
I don’t think so.

Oh please! There is constant self flagellation encouraged over colonialism, how goodwhite people have it, how evil men are across the media/entertainment/school/university. You can’t even visit an historic property without a lecture of how evil white men earned their money on the back of slavery. “Positive discrimination” opportunities etc

There’s plenty of evidence about certain groups and self fulfilling prophecies, why should white boys be exempt.

The Left, don’t care about any of these things really hence the anti semitism of the Gaza Hysteria with naff all mention of say Sudan. All they care about is societal disruption so they attack the stereotype of person they believe is at the top of society, namely white males.

Oh don’t. For some reason racism is elevated above mysogyny, abuse, poverty. Being white does not protect anyone from those things.

Black and white women die at the hands of men. Black and white women are abused. Black and white children’s lives are ruined because of the adults meant to protect them.

Again, you’ve completely misunderstood what has been said.

Me posting my view that people having concerns regarding illegal immigration isn’t racist, or taking issue with you referring to young, white working class boys as “precious white boy”, is just that - my view. But based on that, you’ve taken it upon yourself to rant at me about oppressors, reparations, lived experiences and telling brown and black peoples what to think. What I’ve posted on this thread isn’t that deep, hence I don’t understand why you are aiming your completely unrelated rants at me.

And now, here you are, taking it upon yourself to assume, purely on the basis of my skin colour, that I’m lucky. You don’t know me, you don’t know what I’ve been through, you know nothing about me. I am of Irish Catholic descent - my ancestors certainly weren’t lucky to be white.

It’s the same as calling young, white, working class boys with no future prospects privileged.

We may have different experiences due to skin colour, but everyone has their own cross to carry in life. How dare you assume that just because someone is white, that their burden is lesser than yours. You have no idea.

Like what?!

So, would it be ok for them to just say it to white Muslims (yes, they exist)? Not racist?

I suppose technically not racist but bigoted. Both are nasty!

What is bigoted about criticising Halal slaughter methods?

It would be called Islamophobic not racist.

It's not, if you also criticize factory farming, inhumane livestock transport methods, etc.It's only bigoted if you ONLY criticize Muslims.

What is Islamophobic about it? Or is any criticism of anything Islamic Islamophobic?

That's certainly a very convenient get out clause for one of the world's major religions - no criticism allowed!

I believe some people have specific problems with the method (throat cutting) and the fact that the animal is supposed to be conscious when it's killed.

I don't agree with them, but I do think people should be allowed to have opinions about the treatment of animals without others trying to shut them down with accusations of bigotry/ Islamophobia.

Point taken about that context, unless it was particularly halal meat which was being referenced.. I just meant that a white Muslim couldn't claim racism but might be able to claim islamophobia.

This rise in racism and support for right wing parties is in direct response to people finding their lives difficult and being convinced that the people to blame for that are immigrants. It really is no more complex than that.
I realise that that doesn't sit easily with right wing people, given its their own ideology that leads to the less advantaged finding life difficult in the first place, and its their own parties that have stirred up racial tension by using immigrants as scapegoats. But it's true nonetheless.

If you really think that young Jack from a small WC almost all white town like mine, votes Reform and thinks Tommy Robinson 'talks sense' because he's deeply hurt by accusations of white privilege and has strong views on CRT, then you need to get out of your ivory tower and come and meet the people you're defending.

This just goes to show how far removed you are from the reality of what is happening.

The young white men I’m talking about are not voting Reform. They don’t think Nigel Farage and Tommy Robinson “talk sense”. They have no respect or admiration for Nigel Farage or Tommy Robinson in the slightest. They see them as traitors.

These aren’t the “I’m not racist, but…” types. They aren’t asking for immigration to be reduced or even stopped. They want total remigration. These groups are gaining momentum and people should be paying attention to this.

We need to seriously think about how we have ended up here.

Why is my experience 'far removed from whats happening' and yours is the finger on the pulse? You hinting at special knowledge of worse and more dangerous racists (which I know exist) doesn't invalidate my comment people are not turning racist because they're upset by concepts they've not even heard of.
The rise in racism amongst disadvantaged white people is because they've been encouraged to see immigrants and by extention people who are not white as the cause of their problems.
People are trying to project theories onto them to serve their agenda of silencing anyone who want to raise awareness of racism. Its exactly the same technique employed by those who'd have us believe decent young men turn into violent misogynists because feminists discuss male patterned violence. It doesn't wash in that context and doesn't wash in this.

@5128gap
My view is that calling people racist without much evidence is a) quite common (online at least) and b) can push people towards further right views than they previously had. Do you disagree with one or both parts of that?

I acknowledge the first may be a possibility. The only place I communicate online is here, and I haven't seen it. However, I know that people say all manner of ill conceived and offensive things online, so calling someone racist for no reason is well within the bounds of possibility.
The second, I disagree. Why would a person who is not remotely racist respond to being called racist by changing their political views? If someone online called me a misogynist I'm not going to seek out the political party most likely to roll back women's rights. I'm going to simply think the person who said it is wrong and continue as I was.

My feeling is not that it flips someone from one extreme to the other, but it can push people from a middle ground to a harder stance.

It’s the same with the MAGA clan.

Your experience is is far removed from what is happening because you think these young men vote Reform and think people like Tommy Robinson “talks sense”. They most certainly do not. They don’t even consider Tommy Robinson to be British. They say he can never be. That he is an Irish immigrant.

The rise in racism amongst disadvantaged white people is because they've been encouraged to see immigrants and by extention people who are not white as the cause of their problems.

Really? So you’re the authority on the rise of racism in young white men? See, I thought they themselves would be the authority on this, and they are not shy about what they have to say.

They say they have been made to feel shame about being white. About being British. About being English. They have been made to feel shame about their flag. About their country. About their history. They have been made to celebrate everyone else’s culture and heritage, yet are told that they don’t have a culture or a heritage. That their homeland is for everyone, but them.

They are certainly don’t seem to see immigrants or people who are not white as the cause of their problems. Rather, they are pushing back against the above, to the point that they don’t actually believe that anyone who is not white can ever be British/English. And it doesn’t stop at being white. As I said, they don’t even consider Tommy Robinson to be British/English. They want total remigration of all people who do not have English ancestors. They believe that England is for the English (I.e. white with English ancestory). That only the English should be in Government (I.e. people who are white with English ancestory).

They don’t see this as racist. They truly believe this is the only way forward for the country. And the are gaining momentum.

This is much more concerning and extreme than disadvantaged white people blaming immigrants and people who are not white for their problems. We’ve passed that point.

Your posts are myopic and off topic.

Also, “how dare you?”. How dare I what? Express my opinion? Not bow down to your deflection? That is not how it works here.

What I have posted is “not that deep”
because it does not affect you and you have no empathy for other people’s experiences; even if we type it out till kingdom come on this thread.

Other posters have validated my comments / experiences but you refuse to acknowledge that.

I do not care AT ALL about your heritage. I have my own heritage, life experience, family experience, professional experience etc which is heavily coloured with racism. I don’t need your sign off to speak my truth.

This topic is about racism and despite your numerous posts you have not addressed ONE single point that I have made about the experiences of black/brown people. Not one.

I listed some discussion points and you immediately dismissed it as a rant. So condescending.

You wrote a whole paragraph about how I dont know you (well duh - why would I know you? This is an anonymous internet forum).

Typical revert to victim mode.

I made a very direct point to you which is that:

Black / brown people have been disadvantaged for centuries. White males should get into universities based on their qualifications and merit. Just like I did, just like all minorities have to. Why is this news to you?

I ask you again: why were you quiet when black/brown people were being excluded from opportunities they were qualified for and a lot of times were OVER qualified for?

Why can’t you have a sensible discussion about this?

It is only NOW that you have a voice about this - because it is because it is NOW affecting white males.

You did not give a jot when it was black/brown people who were being marginalised.

You have NOTHING to say about how black/brown men fought and died in pointless wars on behalf of the Colonialist Empire.

You had nothing to say when it was mainly black/brown people being pushed to live in horribly disadvantaged areas, never encouraged to aspire to higher level jobs, exposed to crime for survival, not given any assistance to break this horrific cycle.

It is only NOW that you care to post, because it is now affecting your ilk.

White males should get out and do the jobs and make the sacrifices that black/brown people have been making for years.

Your posts suggest that you inherently believe that diversity initiatives - to LEVEL the “playing field” marginalise white males, and they deserve their “position” above others.

This is because you inherently believe that white males or white people are more deserving of life-enhancing privilege and opportunities than black/brown people.

That makes you a racist.

If I was wrong, you would have engaged in this discussion in an entirely different way.

No one is lucky in this current environment. No one at all.

No they don’t ever

well if they say they are racist then what? what do you want to happen then?

I’m always a bit sceptical about people who say they didn’t realise. Like the people who say “But gollywogs are just black dollies” But if they’re prepared to listen and learn….They usually aren’t, though…

Yes agree of course they do . My mum did the im not racist thing, said something racist so I said you are racist. She agreed.

it didn’t make what she said any better her agreeing with me!