I'm having some new noise issues with an invalid neighbour and not sure how to handle it

[TheFuturesSoBright]

My neighbour has been ill for years. She has multiple health problems and is, I think, house bound. She's in her late twenties. She lives with her mum downstairs from us. We've known them both since we moved in over twenty years ago. Mum is lovely, kind and helpful. Daughter can be a bit difficult and prickly but not surprising as her health is so poor. We had one previous issue with noise (a one off several years back) and one incident of weed smoke coming up into our flat. Overall they are good neighbours and we get on well.

Recently the daughter had a health crisis and was in hospital for months.
She's recently been allowed back home. Here's where the issues have begun. Since being back, she's been using her bedroom, which is immediately below mine, as more of a living room. Before she went into hospital they spent their time mostly in the kitchen as there's no living room. I think she probably can't move around much now and might be confined to her bedroom.

The problem is that the sound proofing between flats is very poor. She is having people visit late into the night, they are laughing and talking loudly, or watching tv until 1 am. I've tried swapping DC into my room but he has autism and sleeps badly at the best of times. It woke him last night (he wakes at least once nightly already but this was an "extra" waking.) There seems no prospect of it changing as she's is unlikely to get any better.

What stops me just asking them to keep it down, is that they're not really being REALLY loud, it's just an unfortunate combination of them having loud voices even in normal conversation, very poor sound proofing between floors, and a difference in the hours we want to be asleep.

I had resolved until tonight to just put up with it, and hope the novelty of being home wore off (so fewer visitors) but tonight I could hear them laughing and talking when I was sitting in my living room, not only in the bedroom.

The sound carries so much. I've started getting anxious towards bedtime, anticipating the noise. When I get into bed my heart has started thumping in anticipation of lying awake listening to it.

I just don't know how to approach it with them - if at all. Or do I try sound proofing under my floorboards? I've heard it's very expensive and not very effective.

If anyone has any ideas I would love to hear them. We've had so few problems with this since living here that I just don't know what to do. The last thing I want is to ruin the current good relationship with them. I also feel really selfish because I believe she is stuck in the room - but I still need to sleep.

WIBU to ask them to be quiet in their own home?

But OP hasn't spoken to them for them to be aware they might be a bit loud. OP is also feeling very sensitive around the noise and might therefore be considering them louder than they are

Having friends around is a normal thing. Expecting people to be silent and lonely and paranoid about their noise also isn't particularly considerate

If you live closely to someone then you have to expect some noise

OP to soundproof as much as possible you want to concentrate on materials that act to mitigate airborne noise. A lot of floor soundproofing focuses on dampening down things like footsteps, but this isn't your issue. So if you decide to invest in something, make sure it focuses on what you need.

I would see what the state of your floor is under the carpet. If there are gaps in the floorboard, you can get acoustic tape to cover them. Also look at your skirting board, if it isn't tight to the floorboards, tape that up with acoustic tape too. Then some a soundproofing product over the whole floor (I would tape up and joins too) then underlay, depending on what your current one is like you may want to replace it. Then the carpet, the thicker the better.

On top of that, thick rugs on top of any particularly noisy spots. Curtains to the floor with sound reducing lining will also help, and wall coverings like tapestries (not necessarily medieval!) or other thick fabrics (felt, cork, etc.) or even books in a book case - this stuff against your walls and windows won't keep much of the downstairs noise from getting in but it will stop whatever still reaches from sounding as loud as it will absorb noise in the room and stop it from rebounding off the hard surfaces. For similar reasons, if you have a wooden headboard on the bed, cover it in padding and fabric.

Obviously all that's a lot and may be beyond your budget. Sealing the floorboards and getting an acoustic barrier under the carpet is probably the most cost effective bit. You may be able to some of the wall/headboard covering by moving stuff from elsewhere or being crafty.

While being so sanctimonious and self-righteous at the same time while ultimately being entirely incorrect!

Do you own the property? I would speak with them - let them know you can hear the midnight guests snd it's waking your son. But also decide how much you want to spend on sound proofing vs how realistic it might be to look at a move to somewhere better built, with more privacy and neighbours not so likely to intrude on your peace

You have to enjoy your home within the context of where it is.
It is a flat not a detached house and making noise late into the night is not ok.
By your logic people having 24 hour raves are enjoying their own home. People leaving a dog to bark all day are enjoying their own home. Someone doing irish dance in heavy shoes or playing the trombone all night are enjoyjng their own home.
If your living arrangement involve near neighbours neighbours , you have to be considerate.

If you live close to someone you have to try not to be noisy and annoying late at night .

What time does the neighbour sleep? Sound usually travels really well to the flat below. You might think of a way to get her to open the conversation with you.

@mumsickles The word ‘invalid’ actually was originally used to describe as disabled person as ‘in valid’ as in ‘not valid’ in society. I am quite quite sure you have used this word accidentally and aren’t aware of this at all but it is incredibly offensive to many and I just want to tell you that

And along comes a member of the Army of the Perpetually Offended.

For goodness sake, the word butter probably had some origin that does not reflect the word today. Words and meanings move on, and no need to search out offence where there is none.

Here is the current definition of the word per Oxford: ’a person who is weak or unable to take care of themselves on account of illness, injury, or a health condition.’

It sounds like this may be the correct term for the neighbour. I just want to tell you that.

I'm super sensitive to noise and find ear plugs very uncomfortable. What works for me is running a fan all night or if it's too cold for that, there are lots of fan noises tracks on YouTube. It's enough to cover barking dogs, next door's telly...those every day noises that my brain seems to fixate on and amplify once I become aware of them.

I'm never asleep at 1am, or 3am, but I keep noise down from 11pm. That includes normal living noise. I don't think people should have to creep about in their own home, but buildings are rubbish these days and voices carry at night.

OP I think you are being way too reasonable, probably because you know them. But there's sadly not likely an answer to this as the law concerning noise nuisance is not enforced often in the UK. Your council might ask them to keep voices down from 11.30pm but whether they will..

I would go down this weekend & talk to them. Just ask if they would mind not having visitors after 11pm & it being 'quiet time'

I think an 11pm cut off for guests who are just chatting is a ridiculous suggestion. It's perfectly normal for social visits to go on later than that, and expecting people to shut up before the pubs are shut is BVU!

My neighbours are owls and I'm a lark. I often hear their tv and them and their friends talking and laughing until well after midnight, especially if their adult kids are visiting. (The chimney breast between the two houses seems to act like a speaker cabinet, and the sound really resonates.) They can almost certainly hear my shower running and my tv when I get up, which is usually around 6am, but sometimes earlier.

I wouldn't dream of expecting them to be quiet at 11pm and I'm sure they wouldn't dream of expecting me to be quiet before 7am, because we're all reasonable adults. If they're keeping me awake, I pop ear plugs in.

I suggest you do the same, OP.

Nobody says "He is invalid" as in, not valid.

It is "He is AN invalid" as in having an illness/disability

So much tripe posted by the sanctimonious 🙄

Lots of apartments in other countries have "quiet hours" of something like 11pm to 7am. I wish we had that here!

Yes but, you'd have to have been living under a stone not to know that the word belongs in the era of those little blue three-wheeler cars. 🤷

Buy a huge thick rug and put it over your carpet

Always someone that has to nitpick pick. Have you got any actual advice?

Its a difficult one OP. That time of night you are going to be hyper sensitive to noise anyway as your senses become heightened naturally, that’s a survival instinct we inherited. Have you looked into white noise to cancel out the monotone of the voices? If all else fails it wouldn’t be completely unreasonable to just mention in a friendly way that when people are there in the early hours the sound does travel a lot and wake you. Just do it in a subtle hint kind of way initially, they may even twig and realise socialising at 1am might not be terribly neighbourly.

Doesn’t prevent people just offering advice though rather than nitpicking.

Everyone else knew what you meant as you used it correctly. Some people just like to criticise and jump down your throat.

Invalid is a fine word to use- not pronounced in valid - some people are getting confused I think 🤔

You weren't, it's the correct term for what you describe. It does not mean 'in valid', it means 'not strong'.
I would imagine you could buy soundproofing sheets for the floor? Then thick underlay then carpet?

i would speak to her,
her friends should not be keeping you awake

i think 11 pm is a reasonable ask

Did you read the post?
"My neighbour has been ill for years. She has multiple health problems and is, I think, house bound"

They may not be aware that you can hear them. You can be polite and mention it’s very loud in your flat at night. So you both own? Or rented?

But genuinely why would she be unreasonable?

It is unfortunate the daughter is disabled and unwell, but that does not exempt her from behaving reasonably, all the residents clearly know sound travels in the building and so should behave respectfully in ‘anti-social’ hours.

I bet if you were hoovering or doing aerobics in the bedroom at noon when she is trying to sleep she would complain you are disturbing her, and she would be unreasonable to do so. Communal living requires everyone to behave reasonably and if she doesn’t naturally then you would not be unreasonable to ask her to, though frankly if she is naturally so disrespectful as to do this I doubt asking her will ,are a difference.