Autism and Merlin RAP

[Perzival]

I think it's fair to say that the amount of people diagnosed with autism has increased by a huge amount compared to the amount of people who were diagnosed with the separate conditions prior to the change in the diagnostic manuals and people with a dx can vary between being a doctor and having a family, mortgage, social life etc to requiring 2:1 24 hour support with very limited communication.

This week Merlin that own Alton Towers, Thorpe park, Chessington and Legoland have decided to not give their ride access pass to people who struggle in crowds. This has caused uproar within the Merlin/ theme park groups as the majority of people who have this struggle have autism.

For those who aren't aware, in order to get a Ride Access Pass (RAP) you have to give evidence of your disabilities to a company called Nimbus who then decide what type of issues you have and give you a card with various icons on that you can them submit to venues for reasonable adjustments.

Throw in the commentary around the SEND white paper and the government review into why so many people are being diagnosed and i'm wondering if this is a more general move and one which is becoming more acceptable.

As the diagnosis has gone from previously representing mainly boy/ men with quite complex needs to representing a vast array of differring presentations and with an ever increasing amount of people being diagnosed, aibu to think that this is just the start and more venues/ places will limit or remove reasonable adjustments for this group of people?

AIBU= No, there isn't a push back against the autism diagnosis and adjustments made for the dx

AINBU= yes, more venues will start to remove or reduce adjustments for those with Autism

To avoid drip feeding I have a ds with profound autism and would imagine he will likely always get various reasonable adjustments (still gets RAP) etc.

As this thread demonstrates trying to differentiate the needs of queue assist within the ND classification is extremely complicated. Any attempt at a cut off line will disadvantage a group. Especially younger children with broad but not specific diagnosis. My son was 10 before his diagnosis changed from global development delay to mild LD, then by 18 classed as severe LD. he still qualifies but may not have as a child when as a family he needed it most with the current proposals.

I think the problem might be that all theme parks seem to work to the same model - as many thrill rides as they can but then pack the park with people basically queuing for most of the day. Which they need to do so as to be able to pay to maintain those rides. And sell queue skippers for vast amounts for the same reason.

But people all want different things from theme parks!

Perhaps if one opened with fewer thrill rides and lots of play areas/ low maintenance things to do, decent cafes etc run by outside companies but also plenty of picnic areas, and sold a more limited number of tickets, with all virtual queuing, it might make a profit but be more enjoyable for those who hate crowds and queues but not necessarily ND.

It could charge a bit more for basic entrance and perhaps even a small picnic area fee - so perhaps you’d pay a small amount to go into the picnic area which had its own play area etc, meaning people didn’t just take the tables to sit down. Benches elsewhere.

The hotel could be more basic but pleasant, rather than being a sensory assault.

Could work?

That's a very well put post, thank you. While we may disagree in part i'm grateful for your input and has made me think.

I think the future is going to be hard for all us apart from those who use the services and adaptations as a added benefit or a bonus. Those of us that have loved ones with needs that really can't be met by mainstream support or no support at all are going to suffer. Let's hope we're both wrong.

Perhaps if one opened with fewer thrill rides and lots of play areas/ low maintenance things to do, decent cafes etc run by outside companies but also plenty of picnic areas, and sold a more limited number of tickets, with all virtual queuing, it might make a profit but be more enjoyable for those who hate crowds and queues but not necessarily ND.

But many posters are saying that their children want/need those thrill rides. When my DD was young I would get together with a couple of friends from across the country and we would meet at a lovely farm type place with a few animals, various brilliant play areas, a play barn with soft play, a genuinely frightening dark castle to crawl around in, indoor pedal carts, loads of benches for picnics and a decent cafe with cheapish coffee. It was quite cheap as well and had plenty of outdoor space for kids to run round in. But our kids were 5/6/7, that isn't going to cut it with teens. Because of no complex thrill rides requiring lots of staff, I'm guessing the place was relatively cheap to run.

Theme parks are expensive to run, just imagine what their insurance must cost (especially after that accident a few years ago).

Honestly, I’m not surprised this has happened. The number of people using RAP had got way out of hand, and it meant the park just couldn’t support the people who genuinely can’t stand in long queues. When the RAP queue itself is over 30 minutes, which completely defeats the purpose for everyone.

At some stage we have to accept that theme parks are loud, busy, chaotic places. For some people, that environment just isn’t doable or enjoyable, and that’s okay. There are loads of calmer activities out there that might suit better, instead of expecting every place to adjust everything for every individual.

The real issue, in my opinion, is that loads of passes were being used by people who didn’t truly need them, just because they could get one and it shaved a bit off the wait. And yes, they ask for more info now, but it’s still ridiculously easy to get a doctor to add a line like “may struggle with crowds or queueing.” I even know of a private clinic locally that was charging for letters specifically for this.

Yes you can queue physically whilst virtually queuing with a RAP so if you can tolerate queues to some extent then you can essentially queue for two rides at the same time. There is a YouTube family that show this as a hack. They tell RAP holders to book onto the longest queue rides as soon as he park opens so that they can minimise the virtual wait time as nobody can physically walk to the big rides so quickly. They then tell families to book the next big attraction as soon as you are off the ride. Obviously most people would have to walk often some distance before they could join another queue but not RAP holders. They then tell families to ride any walk on rides or low queue rides whilst waiting for the virtual queue time to tick down. They also get their lunch, enjoy shows, go on the parks etc whilst everyone else is stuck queuing.

It's literally a completely different and infinitely better park experience than most people get. The fact that you don't technically queue jump is a red herring. This is why it's so abused. People wouldn't bother if there wasn't much point.

👏👏

Seriously though, if you have a child that is “violent” in queues (as one poster mentioned) or they become distressed in crowds or long waiting times, why would you take them in the first place? Who is actually getting the pleasure of going on the rides? Is it the parent trying to be inclusive at all costs? It sounds like a nightmare to me.

I think sometimes, as much as we would like everyone to have the exact same opportunities and experiences, we have to accept that not everyone can do everything.

The suggestion of “autism only” days is a good one. Take your children during the quieter months or on school inset days maybe? Sometimes we have to make compromises ourselves instead of expecting others to always be the ones to do it.

Perhaps this was a privilege that has, sadly for those who really need it, been abused by those who could get by without it.

That's just taking the piss. After all those who are physically queuing an hour can't be going on other rides

This has happened because some people have taken the piss. My son could never tolerate a theme park environment but I feel sorry for those who are now going to miss out because of some people's selfishness.

This, exactly. My son who has learning needs, ADHD and autism now cannot attend because so many people took the piss.

They do armed forces days at lower capacity.....

There is also an issue developing for people who require multiple carers with them. My son is an adult in supported living who has 3:1 care and in the last year there have been several times where quiet venues have questioned/ have been awkward about why he has the number of support workers ( all of who carry agency ID).

This will come from people claiming someone who doesn't need it needs multiple carers /claiming every child needs their own carer so granny can get in free.

What that actually looks like for my kids is that they virtual queue for one of the big rides. While waiting they might go on a quiet ride, find a quieter part of the park to decompress, have something to eat in a quiet place, go to the bigger ride, then have some quieter time.

It might also look like virtual queue for a big ride, be triggered by someone who looks like my DDs birth mum, deal with her flashback, help her regulate, get in the car and go home because her day is over.

The problem is there’s no way of knowing ahead of time which you’re going to get. Having a RAP allows you to plan your day to some degree, plan in quiet time to decompress, get food to help with self regulation, avoid situations that impact her wellbeing while still enjoying the environment. I’d much rather she didn’t need the support made necessary by sustained, significant abuse in her early years, but we are where we are. I’d queue for hours at a time if it meant she hadn’t experienced that.

I think there is probably an element of the number of people who although have a diagnosis, do not genuinely need to the pass in terms of queuing.

Nobody wants to wait in the queue and the cost of the fast track pass is ridiculous so you can’t blame people who have the opportunity to get a rap pass from getting one. I expect for the parks there is tipping point of numbers. Obviously as you say there is a real difference between needs and it spoils it for those needs are greatest. Maybe the parks need to devise different strategies for queues and facilities for people to be able to continue to enjoy the parks.

What that actually looks like for my kids is that they virtual queue for one of the big rides. While waiting they might go on a quiet ride, find a quieter part of the park to decompress, have something to eat in a quiet place, go to the bigger ride, then have some quieter time.
It might also look like virtual queue for a big ride, be triggered by someone who looks like my DDs birth mum, deal with her flashback, help her regulate, get in the car and go home because her day is over.
The problem is there’s no way of knowing ahead of time which you’re going to get. Having a RAP allows you to plan your day to some degree, plan in quiet time to decompress, get food to help with self regulation, avoid situations that impact her wellbeing while still enjoying the environment. I’d much rather she didn’t need the support made necessary by sustained, significant abuse in her early years, but we are where we are. I’d queue for hours at a time if it meant she hadn’t experienced that.

I have sympathy for you and your DD but the bottom line is that if the excessive queueing deters non RAP customers, Alton Towers will go bust and no-one gets to go.

Presumably these venues have max daily capacities so if as in a pp's case their child requires 3 carers, that means that Alton Towers is receiving 1 admission fee for 4 entries, I don't see how that business model can survive.

The unashamed albeism of some of the posters on this thread is so depressing.

Luckily the law protects disabled people from discrimination and these profit-making companies that would apparently all go bankrupt if they had to make reasonable adjustments (🙄) are actually legally required to do so.

And the attitude expressed by so many - "if you/your child find theme parks so difficult, just don't go" - it's ignorant and offensive. You could apply it to everything. If participating in something is difficult for a disabled person, don't participate. Well, disabled people are people too, and they have a right to reasonable adjustments (note reasonable).

I've been thinking about the RAP and it's occurred to me that when RAP was originally created it was to meet the needs of those park goers who use a wheelchair and couldn't physically access the queue lines due to them being narrow and them having steps etc.

As RAP has changed to include more varying needs the people who it was created for are struggling to use it and they don't habe the option of trying the proper queues because it's not practical.

I think Merlin have recognised that RAP is harldy meeting the needs of anyone using it with many unable to use at all. I wouldn't be shocked if they've watched the youtube video's and heard the discussion in the queues too.

Those with physical needs can only have their access needs met by alternative entry and there will be some cross over with those who have autism etc having physical or toileting needs too. So, they have decided to try to meet the needs of those people who could queue for one ride while in a virtual queue for another by a different means. I'm not saying this is right, i'm just trying to make sense of it and guessing.

i know legoland is different and does have some wide queues

We definitely need more language and different ways of talking about autism.

But they aren't legally required to provide the same adjustment for every disability. So if they feel it is reasonable to meet the needs of one person with a disability one way they don't necessarily have provide the same adjustment for another person with a different disability. Edit: this isn't discrimination it's meeting individual and different needs in a different way, which is how it should be eg it would be no good giving a deaf person a ramp.

There is also the issue of what is classed as reasonable and it could be argued that it isn't reasonable to provide a large number of people something which is more than access and is a benefit which may cost an organisation which is already losing millions of pounds futher cost.- i'm not saying this is the case, just that I can see how it could be argued.

Because you love going on the rides?

This isn’t true as Disney allow a maximum of 3 people to ride with the DAS holder. Let’s not get carried away with exaggeration

Also the thing is there that the person with RAP is getting to go on extra rides while virtually queuing for a big one. That's not equality

Patently false. Disney parks all changed their priority pass (DAS) system a couple of years ago. They make them available ONLY (with rare exceptions) to those with developmental disabilities who also do not understand the concept of a queue.

They will also take precisely zero notice of an Access card or any other documentation. You have to have an interview over Zoom to determine your eligibility. A DAS is now very difficult to get.

I agree very strongly that the severely autistic are being completely fucked over but the entitled hordes of the ‘neurodiverse’, and this woke notion that any ASD parent - who has a job, is married, drives a car and has CHILDREN, is comparable to the profound version of the disorder. Severe autism (and yes I’ll keep calling it that as my son has the right to language that differentiates his reality from the high functioning) is not ‘neurodiversity’ but a serious disability.

Well according to this, it's complaints from other RAP holders that have made Alton Towers reconsider the system. But I'll bet there's also a financial reason behind it but they're not going to say that are they?

Alton Towers bans ADHD visitors from using disability pass to avoid queues - Stoke-on-Trent Live