Autism and Merlin RAP

[Perzival]

I think it's fair to say that the amount of people diagnosed with autism has increased by a huge amount compared to the amount of people who were diagnosed with the separate conditions prior to the change in the diagnostic manuals and people with a dx can vary between being a doctor and having a family, mortgage, social life etc to requiring 2:1 24 hour support with very limited communication.

This week Merlin that own Alton Towers, Thorpe park, Chessington and Legoland have decided to not give their ride access pass to people who struggle in crowds. This has caused uproar within the Merlin/ theme park groups as the majority of people who have this struggle have autism.

For those who aren't aware, in order to get a Ride Access Pass (RAP) you have to give evidence of your disabilities to a company called Nimbus who then decide what type of issues you have and give you a card with various icons on that you can them submit to venues for reasonable adjustments.

Throw in the commentary around the SEND white paper and the government review into why so many people are being diagnosed and i'm wondering if this is a more general move and one which is becoming more acceptable.

As the diagnosis has gone from previously representing mainly boy/ men with quite complex needs to representing a vast array of differring presentations and with an ever increasing amount of people being diagnosed, aibu to think that this is just the start and more venues/ places will limit or remove reasonable adjustments for this group of people?

AIBU= No, there isn't a push back against the autism diagnosis and adjustments made for the dx

AINBU= yes, more venues will start to remove or reduce adjustments for those with Autism

To avoid drip feeding I have a ds with profound autism and would imagine he will likely always get various reasonable adjustments (still gets RAP) etc.

Thanks @GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

In that case it’s makes no sense. There should be one queue time. So if the regular queue is 1hour RAP should also be 1hour. You are still in the queue just not physically present.

As others have said so many people have abused the system it’s those who genuinely need it who will suffer.

DS attends an autism day care centre and they regularly take a group of young people to Chessington or Thorpe Park…. at least they used to. Over the past year, 3 or 4 of these trips have had to be cancelled because they were unable to pre-book the group with ride access passes, because so many RAPs had already been pre-booked for those days.

In my son’s case, without RAPs his group simply cannot go. Under the new rules he still qualifies for a RAP and I would assume everyone else in his group does too. I do wonder though how many people currently use RAPs because they’re ’nice to have’ and will still be able to access the parks without them. I guess these are the people Merlin is looking to ‘rule out’. It’s terrible though that this new rule will also affect people who really do need the passes, who can’t go without them.

GMTV report this morning on this was infuriating 😫🤣

But the problem is it’s been abused. I took my child to Alton towers and the ride queues were wild. We go to nearish the front and a family of four were getting off and then joining a very short RAP queue to get back on, they had 4 rides whilst we were stood there … how is that fair? It took longer and longer to access the ride because other people having multiple go’s, they had to do something due to this abusing of the system. I am sad for those who really need it. I’m sure I’ll get flamed and someone will say that’s the only ride the child wanted to go on so they are entitled to do so but there we are.

Exactly!

Your son loses out because of people taking the piss.

I hope the new rules mean that he gets a chance now

It's being reported that Merlin's ceo has said it's just a trial for Feb half term. Whether this is back tracking or trying to ride it out in the press/ social media who knows?

I am very worried that this is the start of push back on reasonable adjustments for people with autism.

I have noticed that in Manchester the palace and opera house theatres aren't putting on any relaxed performances apart from the panto at Christmas.

I also think this is a sign of a bigger pushback and that society is getting fed up generally with people who have autism. I can't count how many posts i've read on here where a kid has autism and the poster is upset about 1:1 support, their behaviour, that they should be in special school, that they need boundries..... there's also the posts about benefits and people quite often comment about autism being used as an excuse when they could work.

I do think there are people taking the piss and because people who have a dx present so differently and there are more and more people being dx'd that having some type of autism, adhd etc is becoming the norm and therefore not requiring adjustments.

Ofcourse this impacts those with the most severe needs the most especially where they only have autism as a dx.

WTF?

Do you realise how offensive this is?

@EarlofShrewsbury in what way?

Honestly the questions people ask!

This makes perfect sense, and I don’t think you need to justify yourself!

Tbh I think a lot of ND people with far less profound needs than your son are particularly attracted to theme parks. People with ADHD have a high need for dopamine which theme parks provide in abundance, so it’s a bit harsh to exclude them from it.

I think a lot of the issue also stems from RAP abuse.

Example, a family of 4 with 2 autistic children with RAP. Instead of booking each card for 2 places, they book each card for 4 and then end up with 8 spaces. They then will use one pass for 4 timeouts and then use the other card for a different 4 timeouts while the other one is still counting down.

That's what they need to clamp down on.

Most of us with 'high functioning' children are just hoping to have as good a day as other families by using RAPs. We don't want to get on twice as many rides but we also don't want to have to leave at lunchtime, be attacked or bitten in a queue or deal with public meltdowns, children running off or other dangerous behaviour. I have paid for expensive days out before and left after two or three hours. I've been in situations that would have been unmanageable without a 2nd adult. It's hard to know if it's being widely abused. I do think the situation of a family having multiple passes needs some thought, but we get multiple passes and then split up because our son is a lot younger and doesn't like the same rides as our daughter so perhaps not allowing someone with their own RAP to ride under someone else's would work.

You realise i'm paraphrasing what i've read in posts and how i'm scared that this is the view that will be taken by society and therefore less adjustments made for people with autism?

I take it you haven't my post directly before it? Or the opening post?

I don't care if you report it or not, i don't care if you're offended, i do care that you're trying to shut down conversation and discussion over something that i am concerned about.

With your description of your son's needs surely then he will be covered by the toilet needs caveat of the pass.

I've read the whole thread but I didn't pick up on that because it reads like your own thoughts. You use I think a lot to start the sentences.

It doesn't really matter whose view it is, the point is that is people are out there that think that. It so so wrong.

And the media spin on this has been nothing short of disgusting.

I’ve emailed to see if the symbols can be changed on my DC’s card. I suspect they’ve just changed everyone with neurodivergence to the ‘crowds’ symbol. I’m angry about this. It seems a huge step backwards in understanding how disabilities affect people. I agree that changes need to be made, but not these changes.

For anyone looking for a theme park, Paultons is brilliant and the queues are short even without a pass.

Most of us with 'high functioning' children are just hoping to have as good a day as other families by using RAPs.

But this is what some of us are saying, people without RAPs are having quite shit days out because of the queueing and are starting to think it's not worth the money which is bad news for Merlin.

I think the only solution is to allow fewer people overall into the attractions but that isn't going to happen because then prices would need to rise by a huge amount and no-one at all would go. I am so glad that my DD was never really into theme parks and I only ever had to visit the hell that is Legoland once.

If you'd read the full thread including my opening post you'd know exactly what I was stating that. I do think people feel like that, it's evident in various posts and conversations in wider society.

It does matter who said it, you shouldn't have attacked me like that and deffinitely not called me ableist. You were in the wrong to do that. I will call you out on that regardless of how you try to defend it.

The media spin is representative of how it's seen. The majority of people begrudge things like that for people who thet don't feel are any different to themselves, their kids, their family or friends etc. The whole point of this thread is i'm concerned that this is just the first of many things to come. I wonder what tje government review of autism and adhd dx levels will bring.

Yes, really the only obligation on an attraction should be to offer equal access and an equal experience to their disabled and non disabled guests. If non disabled guests are getting on 3/4 rides a day, paying £200 for the pleasure and spending most of the time in a boring and quite unpleasant queues then would disabled guests want equal access to this kind of experience even if they removed intolerable bits (queuing en masse) out of the experience?

I've just seen the news, and they're spinning this horrendously. They are focussing on ADHD and anxiety, and there is absolutely no mention of autism, sensory processing disorder or learning disabilities, which encompasses some of the people like my son who really cannot attend without a RAP. They've clearly been fed a story and the way it has been reported is wrong.

The answer is not to then blanket ban all ND people from getting RAP passes. Their assessment needs to be stronger.

Are you allowed to go on other rides while waiting. If so they makes an advantage rather that the RAP users getting the same as others

I agree with perzival that there is a pushback against autism.

I think there are several different pushbacks going on though.

One relates to people who will never work and who have high cost care needs being a drain on resources. This is pushed in the media. I dont think this is autism specific just high care needs specific. I think its a very frightening place to be when you hear people trying to suggest very cruel things for this group. Part of this discourse has come about from the increase in pip claims from people with autism, adhd and anxiety/depression and it's all getting lumped together.

I also agree there is a pushback from people who see people with lower support needs, often seemingly to have more succesful lives than the average NT person, but saying they need pip and queue passes and other adjustments to achieve that. People are unsure whether they really need that help and whether when they are struggling in other ways its up to them to give that help. I think the RAP pass is part of that discourse. I do think the higher support needs have been impacted by that as i assume that was the group the passes were created initially.

Then there is pushback against a group who are self diagnosed but probably dont have autism. (I know lots of people self diagnose before actual diagnosis which is differen and not what i mean) but there really are people who watch tik toks decide they are neurodiverse, are very vocal about how the world doesnt fit them and its a superpower. I doubt they get pip, I doubt they can evidence for RAP cards. But they do pitch up at support groups, focus groups for developing services, online and at work and turn up at anything where you self identify into and start to impact what's offered. And I think people are tired of accommodating them so push back against the whole concept.

I think where I differ from perzival, is i think the moderate support needs will probably lose most over the next 10 years. I am fairly sure profound will become a diagnosis and I think lots of things will need that diagnosis to get access. I think those with moderate support needs will find they are in limbo, where they cant go to special school or mainstream, they don't qualify for lower work commitments but also cant work, they wont get PIP but will still have extea costs.

I guess we all just see things through the lens of the person we support.

Yes, my daughter has various problems queuing. Some are due to her adhd, others her learning disability, also her autism. But also her epilepsy - she has absences and it seems like she is staring at people and we have had some horrible incidents as a result - in fact the worst was in a queue for Cobra at Chessington!