To think my daughter shouldn't violence from a child in her nanny job?

[SoniaSwanners]

(Title is missing a word - should be 'Am I being unreasonable to think my daughter shouldn't accept violence...etc')

My daughter has been working as a nanny for about a month, for three children - 9, 7 and 4. The 9-year-old is fine, but the 7-year-old and 4-year-old regularly scream at her 'You're stupid!' etc, and the 4-year-old kicks her, throws things at her and regularly tries to physically hurt her. Once he threw a chair at her. This morning he grabbed her wrist and squeezed it as hard as he could, to try and hurt her. Previously he's said several times, 'I'm going to hurt you with this toy' etc. This isn't just an occasional thing, it's every time she works. The daughter also screams at the mother regularly, calling her stupid and refusing to cooperate. No punishments/consequences are ever given, as far as my daughter knows - the kids still get their daily 'screen time'.

I've told my daughter she ought to resign immediately. I think, on principle, that if you're a nanny and the children in your care are physically violent to you, then that's it, game over. You leave. You don't put up with it. But I've had no experience of nannying. Is this kind of behaviour something parents can reasonably expect a nanny to put up with/fix/work on, while remaining in the job. They pay my daughter minimum wage, by the way.

Am I being unreasonable to think she should leave right now?

Kori kids really are a ‘glorified babysitter’ agency. They barely pay above minimum wage themselves and offer none of the security of a permanent job.

What a bizarre question. Why would it matter if she did? This is about the children's behaviour, not about the nanny.

Is your daughter a qualified nanny?

Nobody has to accept violence from any one, special needs or not.

Most of us SEN parents know this which is why many of us can't or won't get a nanny and end up reducing our hours or quitting our jobs.

Nope, fuck that! I wouldn’t put up with that from my own DS, let alone someone else’s.

She should resign - and tell the parents why she is resigning. Those children need to learn that violence is not acceptable at all.

Define a ‘qualified nanny’. Many nannies have a wealth of experience without being ‘qualified’ in certification form. Many aren’t even Ofsted registered- it’s entirely optional and doesn’t benefit the nanny at all.

That's a little ironic, even if meant as a joke.

What's a "registered" nanny exactly?

They mean Ofsted registered, which Nannies can be but it’s in no way expected or compulsory

She should resign immediately. She has witnessed mum being treated the same way with no consequences so this is acceptable to the parents. Well, it's not actually.

I had a little 4 year old boy once (was an aupaur when younger) who was horrible. I know how that sounds but he really was- screamed "I'm gonna poke you in the eye and you be dead"- threw toys at me and his younger sister. Thankfully the mum put a stop to this and told me to put him in a timeout in his room every time he acted out. It worked to be stern with him and he became quite lovely after a while. But parents need to support disciplining or it's all hell for everyone...

Agree with all of this. I have one DC with SEN who can be difficult to handle sometimes (though not physically violent for a while now, touch wood). But I'm very clear with babysitters about what this behaviour looks like, how to handle it, and that they can get in touch if it becomes impossible to manage. No way I'd be shrugging my shoulders and saying 'oh well, it's a phase' because good childcare workers can easily find an easier job than my kids?

Your daughter needs to find a new family that don't let the children treat her with so little respect.

I would probably start a conversation with the parents, raising the point that the children's behaviour is NOT a "phase", that the parents are in fact training their children to behave this way by there being no consequences to their violent behaviour, and that if they don't change their approach to this ASAP they are going to end up with severely dysfunctional adult children. That continuing to have no consequences will simply drive nanny after nanny away.

If the parents show no interest, then I'd definitely resign. I might resign anyway, since they probably need start with a clean slate and hire a nanny with experience of recovering feral children (good luck with that!).

No. Maybe the odd tantrum from a 4yo and maybe some I hate yous from the older ones, but this is not a standard situation.

Whether it is behaviour or special needs (sounds like not the case here) the family needs a specialist who can help sort it out. Also 3 kids at minimum wage is insane even if all three are angels.

£20 net (around £27+ an hour) is top end for an experienced nanny, it isn't 'the going rate'.
The average London gross wage is about £21 an hour according to NannyTax, so there will be a lot of nannies on less.
Some nannies do earn very well, but you have to start somewhere! No one's walking straight into £50k. I think I was on about £250 a week in my first nanny job.

Correct, top whack for an afternoon nanny or one in a particularly challenging role is £25 gross. And Nannies really shouldn’t be dealing in net these days.

My daughter was paid minimum wagexas a nanny. She had worked in a nursery but it closed after covid and local nurseries weren't recruiting, so she put her details on a nanny online notice board and a woman returning to work from maternity leave contacted her.

This woman was in a high powered job, as was her husband, but they were happy to employ a 21 year old with no nannying experience on minimilum wage, cash in hand.

And they didn't even do background checks.

There is a wide spectrum of "nanny" jobs, with Norland trained at one end and after school care at the other.

If the OP's daughter isn't happy, she could leave - if she thinks she could find something else. It's not always that easy.

The market isn’t quite as good as everyone might think at the moment. I’ve been nannying for 15 years and this is probably the slowest it’s been. A combo of parents using more nursery hours, having a better work/home balance and a hike in the NI and pensions they are now responsible for have really battered the industry.

How old is your daughter and what experience does she have?

Minimum wage is low for a nanny. I would suggest she resigns straight away, and get a job at a nursery where she can work towards childcare qualifications, if she doesn't have them already.

She shouldn’t have to pay the price for their shit parenting.
Sorry she is going through this and YANBU

I wonder how many nannies/childminders/nurseries they've had since the eldest was born.

They sound so angry and the parents sound so passive and useless. I'd resign. I've worked with challenging behaviours and needs but this isn't a situation the nanny can improve all on her own. This isn't a toddler having a little age appropriate development phase.

There are always lots of jobs in early years. I'd encourage her to get another job lined up and leave.

Did your daughter discuss consequences and behaviour before accepting the job? What training has she had
Parents should be supporting her but she needs to take control of the children maybe this isnt a good place for her at this stage due to the ages.
She shouldn't have to accept vioence if patents wont support her id say leave

Is she more of a babysitter/mother’s help? Or is she a qualified professional? She would need to be managing their environment, learning triggers, calming techniques, putting consequences/ boundaries in place. But if she’s not trained/ experienced to do so yes she should absolutely leave. It’s not fair on her at all especially not for such a low wage

"We're hoping this will pass" sounds like a very passive response by the parents. Is anyone else caring for their children just expected to tolerate their behaviour?

Your take on it is valid @SoniaSwanners

She is not going to be able to get a job paying 50k if she has no skills in behaviour management- which she clearly doesn't.

I worked as a nanny years ago and did earn 50k but I saw behaviour management as my role. I very very rarely needed to speak to parents about behaviour as I dealt with it as it happened. Children generally behave significantly better for a nanny than they do their own parents. Maybe nannying isn't the right career fpr this lady.