To think my daughter shouldn't violence from a child in her nanny job?

[SoniaSwanners]

(Title is missing a word - should be 'Am I being unreasonable to think my daughter shouldn't accept violence...etc')

My daughter has been working as a nanny for about a month, for three children - 9, 7 and 4. The 9-year-old is fine, but the 7-year-old and 4-year-old regularly scream at her 'You're stupid!' etc, and the 4-year-old kicks her, throws things at her and regularly tries to physically hurt her. Once he threw a chair at her. This morning he grabbed her wrist and squeezed it as hard as he could, to try and hurt her. Previously he's said several times, 'I'm going to hurt you with this toy' etc. This isn't just an occasional thing, it's every time she works. The daughter also screams at the mother regularly, calling her stupid and refusing to cooperate. No punishments/consequences are ever given, as far as my daughter knows - the kids still get their daily 'screen time'.

I've told my daughter she ought to resign immediately. I think, on principle, that if you're a nanny and the children in your care are physically violent to you, then that's it, game over. You leave. You don't put up with it. But I've had no experience of nannying. Is this kind of behaviour something parents can reasonably expect a nanny to put up with/fix/work on, while remaining in the job. They pay my daughter minimum wage, by the way.

Am I being unreasonable to think she should leave right now?

No, your daughter shouldn't have to put up with aggressive children. Their parents are failing them by not putting in boundaries, and giving consequences for poor behaviour. If the children are SEN, this should have been disclosed in the advertisement or at the very latest, at the interview. Even if they are SEN, it doesn't mean your daughter should put up with the behaviours being shown.

Your daughter should absolutely resign, and tell the parents why!

Well I think we will just have to disagree.
Teachers and school manage children different to parents.

All I’m saying is if I paid a nanny I’d be cross if the nanny was coming to me telling tales on the children everyday. (Though I’d pay my nanny properly not minimum wage)

She's not in social services or state education where helping all children indiscriminately is part of the job. A nanny is not an essential service that anyone has a right to.

She's not required to find a way to deal with violent children if she can alternatively find a family with nicer children, which I bet she can. All children are badly behaved at times but not all children are violent.

If there was a surplus of nannies and lack of employers she might indeed have to consider a new line of work but I don't think that's the case so she can be selective within the profession if she wants to (although of course it's what she wants that matters, not what her mother wants).

Reporting physical assault is hardly ‘telling tales’ no
matter how much you’re being paid.

Decent nannies are like gold dust and earn 50k + in my area...

She should vote with her feet.

@Favouritefruits Telling tales? The parents need to know. Here they do but they just want a nanny to do what they won’t. I’d want double minimum wage! And some. Some people keep on having dc and don’t take responsibility for them.

My children are in independent school and I’d certainly be told if they were being violent towards their teachers. Is that ‘telling tales’? Why is this different?

I'd be speaking to the parents if I was your DD, sharing concerns. Leaving if I received an unsatisfactory response.
I'd also be thinking about safeguarding as these behaviours may be an expression of something else going on

The daughter also screams at the mother regularly, calling her stupid and refusing to cooperate. No punishments/consequences are ever given, as far as my daughter knows - the kids still get their daily 'screen time'.

Hard nope from me.

4 is very young, there's probably something behind his behaviour. Maybe he misses his parents, has separation anxiety and is acting out in the hope that she can be driven away and he will get more time with his mum and dad? Or he could easily have SEND - hardly any child is diagnosed aged 4, because at that age what's normal is a broad spectrum.

Either way, it sounds like a challenging situation where his needs aren't being met - your DD is probably not suited to this role, she should resign if it's feeling too hard.

From a teachers point of view, we would be talking to the parents.. we would be working with the parents in positive behaviour/reinforcements/rewards/language etc and we would be expecting the parents to follow what we’re doing in school, at home.
but of course you’re child is a lone carer. There is no team tag, there are no assemblies to talk about feelings and how we treat each other, there are no class role models.

but these children do have parents and they do go to school ( I presume). I want to ask how do the children behave there? I know you said that mum is shouted at too.

the children may have underlying needs that your daughter has not been party too. You’ll be amazed as teachers that we’re told that grandparents/childminder/whoever is not aware of x,y and z. The children may have also had a stream of nanny’s (particularly if there behaviour is like this) and they’re testing the boundaries. The children just may just be completely wild lol and this is very normal behaviour to them because actually they’ve never been picked up on it at home, they don’t do it at school and no nanny has ever stuck around long enough to have a positive impact on them.

what your dd does is really up to her. If she likes the job, the very least she needs to do is talk to the parents and get them onboard. If that doesn’t happen and she can’t do it, then obviously she’ll need a rethink.

if this is just some sort of stopgap job, she has no real passion to do anything like this, then really wants the point. The world is really hard at the moment, jobs are hard to come by …but that’s not to say they’re not out there. Do something else.

After a month , I would walk out today.
Hopefully the parents might come to realise they need to sort this behaviour out.

Is she Nannying through an agency or a company? If so, she should also talk to them about it as I'd guess the parent will just get in another Nanny after her.

What kind of training has she had?

For this setting I'd say get the heck out of there as it sounds miserable.

She's being paid to be a Nanny not a glorified punchbag. She needs to leave imo.

@WizardLizard86 Children behave differently in different environments and with different people. Most behave much better in child care than at home but it's sometimes the reverse. Children also behave differently with different individuals, they might act one way with one granny but not with another. It's up to the carer to find a way for the child to behave in their care, it's often very difficult to do. If the nanny isn't up for the challenge that's absolutely fair enough find a different employer. But it is her job to manage the child's behaviour when in her care. Most children adapt in a day or two to boundaries. I work in this field and I've seen in many many times. But maybe youll also write this post off as 'idiotic' like my previous post, what do I know really with years of experience and a qualification in early years.

As a nanny I’ve had children act out and on rare occasions say some really horrible things to me but the difference with my situations was that i immediately told the parents and they backed me up and said this absolutely wasn’t ok and made sure the children knew that.

If the parents aren’t dealing with the behaviour your daughters got no hope of change. She needs to be having a clear conversation with the parents that the behaviour isn’t acceptable and be asking what they plan to do about it as it’s not something she’s willing to continue putting up with.

If nothing changes she needs to leave.

And none of that means the parents shouldn’t be on board and supportive in changing the child’s behaviour.

My nanny had a bad experience like this in her previous job. A 9 year old kept hitting her with no consequences. Parents did nothing. It then escalated and the 9 year old started making false claims that the nanny hit her! The parents didn't believe the kid as she told a lot of lies generally but my nanny eventually resigned, and she was off work for 5 months, she was so stressed and burnt out.

Poor woman is an absolute angel and her previous employer actually confirmed everything (unusually honest of them) and she had excellent references from before that. But I say this as a word of caution, your daughter's employer could decide she is the issue and give her a bad reference which will follow her for a long time.

A good parent would take this very seriously and have the nanny's back. These are some serious discipline issues, it's not ok and your daughter needs to resign quickly.

She should resign.

The parents can stay home and be beaten until the 'phase passes'. Are they even working with her or the children to stamp out this awful behaviour?

This sounds like the 'school should teach/provide/change nappies/teach them to eat, sit, sleep, breathe' thought process.

That sounds sinister.

Time to quit, nannies are in huge demand. Has she looked at Koru kids I've seen them advertising for extra staff

She could go to Australia or Europe and nanny it would be more interesting and better benefits/pay! Ski chalets in Europe often hire nannies for babysitting in the chalets.

Minimum wage? Where on earth is she based? In London going rate is £20 per hour net. Nannying is hard work but nannies should be able to earn well from it.

She shouldn't put up with this, the behavior is really concerning.

My son has SEN and has been violent to all members of the family (parents, nanny, siblings, everyone) and we've always been lock-step with nannies on how to manage it, consequences etc. The one or two times he's lashed out we've come home from work so she could leave and get some time to decompress. Nannying is a team sport.

This.

The behavior isn't so worrying as much as the parents not seeming to think it's a huge huge problem.

What does she want to do?

I once had a child act like that but worse, I rang the mum and told her to come home. I said I wasn’t coming back the next day unless it was sorted.