Labour increase benefits bill. AIBU To think what’s the point in working?

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15520831/Labours-push-lift-two-child-benefits-cap-hand-25-000-windfalls-thousands-Britains-biggest-jobless-families.html#

‘Official estimates suggest the cost of scrapping the cap will total £13.6 billion over the next five years.

The Tories said families currently affected by the cap are in line to receive windfalls worth an average £25,000 each over that period.

But the biggest families will gain far more. Thousands of families with five children will receive around £10,900 a year while those with six children will get an extra £16,600 a year.
Almost half of the families involved have no one in work.‘

I don't agree with the way the DWP makes people apply for any job (no matter how poor of a match it may be for the person). It doesn't make sense from an employment and skills perspective (long-term).

But you also have to be careful with letting people sit on benefits, because after 12M or so of that, less than 5% of people return to work. And this has become a problem in the UK.

Er...I think disabled asylum seekers do.

'If you have a problem with muggers why don't you just start mugging people as well?'

I suspect future generations will look back at this period in time as ‘peak benefits’ in the UK. It’s unsustainable and unless a government is brave enough to tackle it we will inevitably end up with a forced re-set of some sort (economic disaster/bankruptcy) which will be painful rather than managed.

A life spent on benefits is terrible for mental health. That worries me more than the cost. We will end up being a nation of utter lethargy and poverty as the people with drive will just leave.

No. I think Amazon the company is not paying enough tax. Its a separate legal entity. Thats different from "billionaires and non doms" . I just think the rules regarding online sales should be changed so that they match up to bricks and mortar shops (ie pay some equivalent of business rates).

Thats not what you are talking about though. You are talking about people as individuals. Can you list them and say how much tax they should be paying?

It's bloody difficult to get a diagnosis - the waiting list here (for children) is 7 years. If your DC is struggling today, it's no earthly use at all. Nobody is pursuing an ASC/ADHD or similar diagnosis for shits and giggles, nor are those disabilities confined to the offspring of low-earners or benefits claimants. If no childcare will accept your DC, how are you meant to work? If your DC's school says it can't meet need, and puts them on a reduced timetable (which is unlawful, but they don't care, because it will take 2 to 3 years to get to Tribunal), how are you meant to work?

Both of the above scenarios happened to me, and the only reason I kept my job is because DH and I are high earners who can afford a nanny.

Many of the so-called excessive costs associated with SEN children are caused by poor and inadequate provision by LA's and the NHS. In DS' case, when mainstream couldn't cope with his needs, I wanted to send him to a SEN base in a LA school, but there were no places available in my entire (large) county. So I kicked up a stink and he was placed in an independent SEN school (at massive cost to the LA, relative to a SEN base). Oh and the LA also has to pay for him to get a taxi there because it's bloody miles from where we live.

As a responsible professional who has paid hundreds of thousands in income tax over the last two decades, being a Daily Mail hate figure because my child is disabled is quite a new experience for me!

Here we go this week's benefit bashing thread has landed with obligatory Daily Mail link....

Not even worth debating. Get a new hobby OP.

My base scenario now is that public anger keeps building over the next few years as the managed decline continues (due to too much welfare crowding out investment), leading to a Reform coalition in 2029.

Its the main reason I tell people the facts about welfare and its sustainability. If you do not make adjustments now to curtail its growth, much harsher cuts will be done when Reform comes in. But people seem to be stuck in a mentality where they feel entitled to benefits that grow over time. One look at the UKs public finance position and demographics tells you this is a pie in the sky view.

My worry about Reform is that they will slash and burn public spending in very stupid ways, leading to even greater economic problems for the UK down the line.

And which benefits do you think disabled asylum seekers are entitled to?

We need jobs not the opposite, ie higher benefits. Agree it’s terrible for MH, especially for young people.

I am pretty sure that spending £2.1 BILLION on taxis ferrying kids around for school is a massive waste of taxpayer money.

Or..

A lot of people realised they preferred not working during the pandemic and that it improved their MH. Which it did for a lot of people. But improved MH doesn't equal having previously had a mental illness.

And during the pandemic, internet use exploded as did all the social media accounts telling people that if they feel like 'this' - they probably have ADHD/ASD/depression/anxiety whatever.

MN was a case in point, the scantest information in an OP would lead people to say 'sounds like ADHD or ASC, get assesed/get them assessed'. And I mean scant information.

So you had millions of people being deluged with often innaccurate information telling them about all these conditions that they probably have. At the same time you had online advertisement pop-ups saying 'do you have X conditions? then you may be entitled to these benefits, click to find out more'.

Along with all the social media accounts, Youtube channels, Tiktoks etc saying 'how to get points on your PIP claim' .

Plus all the private companies springing up saying 'ADHD assessments, £750 only takes an hour'. Plus other companies you can pay to help you with your PIP claim who advertise their success rates.

So there's another possible reason why the majority of sickness and PIP claimants are for MH conditions and that's because they can't be definitively proven. There's no blood test, x-ray etc, it's almost entirely based on what the person reports and when people are deluged with information about what for e.g ADHD or anxiety presents like and what to say to secure a diagnosis, or a sicknote or PIP. They may exaggerate or fake, or genuinely believe it applies to them.

Then it comes down to the practitioner assessing going on what the person says. Even if they have doubts, they're unlikely to accuse the person of lying due to the very real risk of complaints or litigation so..

That's an alternative perspective. And it was happening before covid anyway, it just accelerated because of the reasons I gave above.

I think there is a strong discourse on Mumsnet that benefits has everyone on the poverty line. I have name changed for this but I have been on Mumsnet a decade.

I am also going to add a caveat that I'm stuck as if I don't claim DLA for my children then I don't have the work exemption. I do work but I cant work full time so I need that exemption.

I get

Wages £1200
UC £2067
DLA £970
Child benefit £170

We are not struggling, they have everything they need and we have a good lifestyle.

My one child is on high rate DLA and the other middle. Both have complex needs with a tonne of evidence. My high rate one attends a specialist school for the children with the most complex needs.

I do want to be clear that the children do have super high needs and I am not wrongly claiming and have never had to appeal for anything like their school placements, EHCPs or DLA as the evidence is strong. But i also want to be clear that the state looks after us. I work 18.5 hours a week. The support from the state has allowed me to keep my foot in the door of a professional job, which will massively help when my kids are older and probably in supported placements.

The state also looks after my alcoholic neighbour and his wife to be his carer. They do not struggle either. He openly states he has no incentive to get better as if he gets better he loses all this money and will have to work. Id argue the state is actively contributing to killing him.

The child benefit lift won't help those who just can't be bothered to work, it will help those who are working enough to be over the cap, the very people we should be helping.

We do need to stop inadvertently incentivisng those who are claiming for mental health difficulties to not get better as it leaves them financially up a creek. This is where it is spiralling out of control.

Do you have first hand experience of how much disabled asylum seekers actually get? I do, and I was quite surprised.

If not being homeless is better, why are they homeless.

Clearly must be better to be homeless.

@Vinvertebrate I think you've missed the point a bit.
I 100% agree with you and share a similar experience.
What I was talking about was the benefit cap not applying where one child has a disability. That isn't your situation, hence nothing to do with the article and the point about the benefit cap.
Awards and applications for child DLA are through the roof and don't depend on a diagnosis if a case can be made. Social media is full of 'influencers' telling people how to get DLA, not to mention the paid services doing the same. Every other child seems to be being described as autistic or ADHD at the moment. That can't be disconnected with those statistics. And the perverse incentive that clearly does exist for non working households to get a child identified with a disability.

Interesting how the evidence isn't what you post, just "trust me bro". All while appearing to not even know the difference between asylum seekers and refugees.

There are no secret laws for benefits, post what you are claiming an asylum seeker can get if disabled or don't waste everyone's time.

The state also looks after my alcoholic neighbour and his wife to be his carer. They do not struggle either. He openly states he has no incentive to get better as if he gets better he loses all this money and will have to work. Id argue the state is actively contributing to killing him.

I have heard of situations like the above as well.

Its absolutely nuts that we keep giving people money to drink themselves to an early grave (this also has a huge negative impact on the NHS as they invariably end up there being treated for multiple co-morbidities).

The child related element of UC and CB stop at a certain point. Did you not know this? Meanwhile your earned income doesn’t. Why should children struggle while they are growing up?

Unintended consequences, maybe. No local specialist schools means the SEN children who need them have to travel further, yet I don't see much appetite to increase the number of specialist SEN places. Many parents can't deal with the logistical impossibility of getting one to child to specialist and other(s) elsewhere. Many SEMH children are school refusers and are heavily reliant on support from trusted adults outside of the home.

DS has ended up in a school so far away from us that I would have to drive 4 hours every day to transport him. And I'd have to give up my job, which pays a significant chunk (62% at times) to HMRC.

I think I'll save my sympathy for the poor DC spending huge chunks of their childhood being ferried around because of inadequate provision for their needs by successive governments.

I don't think that's true in the vast majority of cases. And if it is that's because wages are way too low.

Actually, this board has opened my eyes as to how many parents really believe that it's OK to claim benefits if you are a young and healthy person and cannot find a job that you like + add some extra benefits like PIP for MH and actually it turns out you are OK to just chill out in your parents' house gaming and ordering takeaways. Benefits used to be something you claimed when you were elderly, missing a couple of years to your pension age, etc. or in dire straights i.e. sudden divorce, pregnancy, redundancy - but now it's become a lifestyle choice for the young with their parents actively supporting it.

What? My post was about about a relative who is an asylum seeker here. I don't think I can be classed as a trust me bro. Want me to break the figures down for you?

A case can only be made though with medical evidence. It doesn't matter what you write in the forms if it isn't supported with medical evidence.

Why are you saying that all benefits claimants 'cant be arsed to earn anything'. Most UC claimants work. And pip isn't means tested so you could work and be a billionaire and still claim.