For the love of God, everybody it's etc for et cetera. Not ECT

[Moulez]

I know I'm not being unreasonable, but just please agree so that we can educate people,
Without rules, where are we?

It's confusing if they get used for two things. DP could be partner or parents. GP could be the family doctor or grandparents.

What's worrying is the frequency of the same mistakes.

It's Colombia

@dailyconniptions, Many of the Pedants' corner threads have posters who will argue that they're right when they are not.

@NunsOnTheRum , @explanationplease , @Doingtheboxerbeat , @Abitofalark
in English, the vowels in unstressed syllables tend to be said as a schwa, which is why affect and effect tend to sound the same.

Colombia isn't Kul-umby-a in Spanish. Bogotá sounds different too.

I struggle with effect and affect.
What is worse is that I am a teacher!
I grew up and went to school in the 70s and grammar (and spelling) was not taught at all.
It became a real issue when learning French at secondary school, when none of us had a clue what any of the parts of speech were in English, so was hard to learn in French.

I am 100% self taught with all these spellings and grammar points, and forced myself to do it because I am a teacher. Not sure how many of my generation would have bothered unless it was relevant to their work though.

I also have to think twice about lose and loose. I remember that lost has one o and that helps.

@steppemum , we weren't taught English grammar at school either, but I studied other languages. I find it helps to enunciate clearly (ee-ffect and ah-ffeect not uh-ffect) and to write words in full (it is not it's).

Enunciation does not help with effect and affect at all!
The issue is when should effect be used and when affect.
I mentally do not have 2 distinct meanings for them, or distinct sounds in my head when saying a sentence.

I speak 3 languages well, and 2 more at lower intermediate level, so I now have a good grasp of grammar, but just like the loose/lose person above, I have a blind spot with effect and affect. In my head they are one word with 2 spellings and it is a mystery to me which goes where (despite knowing the actual rules for them, somehow that doesn't help)

I was at school in the '70s and '80s, and we had regular spelling tests, and often did bits of grammar - I certainly knew about the parts of speech and subordinate clauses before starting any foreign languages.

that is great, and I am glad that your school did that, but it is generlaly recognised in education that the child centred free thinking approach in the 70s led to many schools not teaching grammar and spelling.

It is one reason why there has been such a huge backlash, meaning that year 6 now have to spend a lot of time learning things like fronted adverbials.

@steppemum , it does if you remember to link the sound to he meaning. Affect is usually a verb (Action), effect is usually a noun (End result).

How will this affect me? (Action)
What effect will this have on me? (End result)

i'll try that !

You could cop out and say impact instead.
I now need to name change as a real pedant would not post that.

One good thing about my school was they were strict on enunciation. The standard of English teaching wasn't good.

Out of interest, how did you learn the languages? Taught or immersion?

@EBearhug , I think it depended on where you were (local authority) and type of school.

Wasn’t it in the late 70s/early 80s when much of the educational establishment was saying that insisting on correct SPAG was elitist?

In the early 90s when I was doing an OU course or two, I read of someone asking whether their poor spelling would be penalised in essays etc.
The answer was basically ‘no’.

How about loose rhymes with noose?

Curb appeal drives me mad 😡 it’s Kerb appeal, I can just about hold it together when I read it on here but now my local Estate Agent has been using it in their sales particulars and that is rage inducing!

I hate this too, very annoying.

@Doingtheboxerbeat , lose (verb), loose (adjective)

Lose weight - weight is being lost.
Loose weight - a kettlebell.

YABU to not use pedants corner.

This should be posted on pedants’ corner. I do feel for those who make these mistakes but it shows who doesn’t read, pay attention to the written word or actually listen properly. Some people just don’t seem be bothered by their poor SPAG. Others may have dyslexia.
I make a point of not correcting anyone on MN but I do post on PC topic.

Yes and it's written into our road laws and everything. We also have kerb crawlers. Surely everyone knows that. Does the estate agent also describe the ground floor as the first floor: oh the horror!

No, but they do say ground flat rather than ground floor flat which raises my heckles, I’ve just looked it up as to why they do this and according to Google it’s because ground flat is less technical for people to understand 🤦🏻‍♀️

Yes but AIBU generally has numerous threads that should be posted elsewhere, such as Politics, Relationships, Education, TV, Books, Chat, as they have nothing to do with wanting advice or opinions about a dilemma. Mumsnet doesn't care, though. Someone started a thread the other night with the title 'Anyone fancy a chat?' Why not use Chat? And why is there a thread of about 20 parts and counting about a book and a film?

So what is the correct abbreviation of ectetera?

I haven't come across that one. I'm astounded they assume people can't be expected to understand something that is well known and easy to interpret in the estate agent context. What would these poor innocents make of 'prestigious', 'dual aspect', 'deceptively spacious' or 'flying freehold'? Even 'ground rent' must be suspect, never mind leasehold, freehold and covenants.I only hope they don't have to grapple with 'curtilage'.

I know! They manage to say first floor flat, second floor flat though, but ground floor flat is far to technical to understand! As for dual aspect, I’m surprised they still use that term in case prospective buyers think it’s an invite to pistols at dawn! 😂