Gentle parenting?

[Parentingconfusing]

I don’t even know whether this is gentle parenting. So ignore that phrase if it’s not.

But basically I am getting super confused. I have a preschooler and I would say about 75% of the parents around me have and do continue to parent like the parent in this Instagram video.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DTosvyLgma4

Now don’t get me wrong this instaguy is obviously really thoughful. He seems really kind. He’s doing his best so I am not meaning a judgement directly on him - who am I to judge anyway! But this is a perfect example of the type of parenting I see around me all the time. Which is useful as it’s difficult to describe.

And I just dont know. This is supposed to be making great well adjusted adults. But in honesty all I am seeing is parents having near heart attacks all the time in anxiety and panic whilst pretending to be super chill about it - but you can hear in their voice they really aren’t. Their children running off round corners and nearly running into roads - I did actually see one fall into a road last week after running round the corner not waiting or listening.

Constant negotiations and centering and walking on eggshells either because they are or it’s an expectation that they are on the verge of a meltdown - in a very mundane and normal situation.

So this post isn’t really about this insta video. It’s about the ethos it embodies. Which on the surface looks lovely and as a one off that’s potentially a really nice bonding resolution moment - but in reality that’s probably 10 times a day of conflict - (yes an assumption because I barely see these kids and everyone I know who does this parenting is having this atleast once on the school run or 3-4 times in a play date). And not to make it about this insta guy - but if you look on his timeline you literally have one filmed an hour later where he’s walking on eggshells trying to get this kid in a car. It’s not a one off. This is all the time!

And maybe that’s the point - I see this video or these instances occurring in RL and I see that as a conflict. Yet they are purposefully framing this as not a conflict - it’s character building, boundary bending, emotional regulation learning.

I don’t know. I am confused. 🫤

I am certainly no perfect parent. Far from it. But I am not walking on eggshells every two minutes and ‘being calm and trusting’ watching my kid run off and into roads 50m away or trying to convince them to get into a car.

Wiser people who have good well adjusted kids older than 30… What parenting should we really be aiming for?! This ‘gentle parenting’ stuff is crazy isn’t it?

gentle parenting sounds like permissive parenting

We do responsive parenting with firm boundaries. We try and response to their needs and see / hear them and deal with thing in a friendly, non dramatic and pragmatic manner. I also sometimes shout and think that is A LOT MORE effective than dh's and his conflict avoidance. You just have to be real they need to see your anger, frustration happiness, all. So they find these emotions acceptable in themselves.

The video is ridiculous. I wouldn't be running around after my daughter who was playing silly games like that. He looks like a right muppet and truing the girl into the brat from hell.

I know. It used to be ours too but we saw the damage to children so banned it.

He lost me when he filmed his daughters tantrum.

I would say I’m a gentle parent or I try to be, but we have firm boundaries and my kids hear no plenty of times! Sometimes I shout, but I also apologise when I lose my shit and am working to be less shouty. This kids tantrum over her zipper is ridiculous, I wouldn’t let my kids run off like that. Feelings are valid yes but they’re not an excuse to be a dick. Take a deep breath and tell me what’s wrong!

This too. Our parents never second guessed themselves.

And the kids knew it

Wow you have summed up exactly what it’s like.

And I do feel that. When I am around permissive parents I feel shame that if I set a boundary, correct or tell off for something.

Its interesting because I think your right about the authoritarian stuff. It’s interesting the parenting type gentle parenting is supposed to be authoritative. Because I do think authoritative is the exact word I would use to describe my parenting (not that I knew that word even existed 5 mins ago so I probably would have said authoritarian - but I didn’t because it sounds awful). So maybe I am gentle parenting after all?!

But I wouldn’t dare say it. Authorit-anything is a no go in the current climes.

And actually again that’s interesting. Because I am a staunch classical libertarian (not the pseudo American libs) and when I look at the control and expectations of adults behaviour and expression - that is confusing to me. We are training young kids to be free when they don’t know the lines, yet controlling adults more and more who have a right to that expression. How is that going to pan out down the line!

I don't know how individuals are parented or not but it's bloody hard work teaching teenagers that will not take "no" for an answer and will whinge or protest like toddlers trying to get their own way, and stropping when they don't. It's not all of them, it's not even the majority, but get a cluster of them and the classroom becomes a containment zone not a learning environment, and this affects everyone in the room regularly.

The proportion of teenagers like this has increased and what was once a tough class on a timetable is now standard. I'm comparing demographically similar catchments that are near each other.

Many parents resist the practicalities of effective group behaviour. A teacher can not hold lengthy negotiations with each student. Too many don't grasp the cumulative disruption of petty behaviours when it's multiplied in a group setting, and don't support teaching staff with appropriate boundaries and standards. Again, it's not all, but it is enough to make life harder for all.

It's not only parenting styles, the rise of tablet/phone parenting has occurred at the same time as social media parenting trends and the closure of children's centres. Families/ extended families are smaller so parents have less experience before raising their own children. Parenting can be isolated. When previous generations had been hands off, children had more variety of socialisation with each other and their community to learn from. I'm not saying it was perfect and everyone turned out fine, it wasn't but in some ways the stakes were lower and there was more space in society to catch up (and harsher consequences to those that didn't as policing was more effectively resourced).

With my younger youth group, the children are coming in less mature, shorter attention spans. Again a proportion of parents' attitudes have shifted. They're more anxious (the parents) and the children are often infantilised and held back from normal development progress towards independence skills. It's clear what our organisation is/ does, we're experienced leaders, but we get more parents flouncing off than we used to because they don't like the age appropriate boundaries and expectations that the leaders have.

Whatever gentle parenting is or isn't, there are too many children being raised as individuals with unrealistic expectations of what the rest of society can grant them.

When my teenagers were young I was in fb groups for things like cloth nappies and "baby wearing" which tended to attract a lot of "attachment" or "gentle" parenting discussion. The lengthy scripts of how to talk to very young children seemed ridiculously verbose and beyond understanding of that development stage. Lengthy "gentle parenting" speeches would only have overloaded him when he was struggling with processing and made difficult situations worse.
Fortunately I'd already been teaching and working with young people and went into parenting with wanting to guide my children into being able to function in society and that means balancing the ego with thinking about others. That's been interesting as one is autistic, but he's managed to get to the GCSE stage of the system in a mainstream setting with very few issues. It takes adaption and pacing at home to give him chance to regulate, but ultimately he needs to develop the skills to function in the adult world in the long run. More than a NT child, he's needed parenting with the big picture in mind and just appeasing his immediate happiness would do him a disservice in the long term.

would make an interesting essay subject

He lost me when he filmed his daughters tantrum.
this. exploitative and the opposite of his naval gazing word salad, does he think he's David Attenborough

out here, in the wide and unpredictable expanse of the public park, we encounter a bold young explorer. the toddler has misbehaved and now, sensing the danger daddy filming makes a decisive break for freedom. they run. not with grace, but with determination impressive.

Honestly I have been thinking about that today and it’s like the exact reverse. Kids have no boundaries and no expectations. When really they need a safe framework to grow because they don’t have experience or autonomy.

Adults on the other hand our rules for expression and right think; even our rights themselves getting smaller and smaller. Yet we should have those rights as human adults; because that is freedom and we have autonomy. We can remove ourselves from dangerous or unpleasant situations and also choose to fight or stand in the face of danger or injustice.

And then I spend the evening watching what’s happening in America and again trip myself out! Maybe actually we should be raising a pack of feral and unruly argumentative and antisocial non compliers. Maybe I am wrong! Maybe that’s what’s going on - that we see the building momentum of fascism and corrupt power out for itself and subconsciously are thinking fuck it. Kid you look after number one. Don’t listen to the rules.

And maybe that’s what we need 🫣 because god help corrupt elites trying to rule over these lot when their older 😅

So a silver lining after all and apologies for the tangent rant. That’s really taken an unexpected turn but I have become quite riled up by news from across the pond and I see little shadows lurking in the corners here in this country too.

🙏

I do completely agree but as you can see above I have become disregulated 😂

I need to cool off because I need a plan to create uncontrollable tyrants who also are capable of receiving an education to enable critical thinking and persuasive communication whilst also embedding a bullet proof moral and value set.

The video is all very well (except for the whole filming your kid for clicks part) when you're dealing with one kid but when you're dealing with 4 of them, all independently feeling their feelings all at the same time and all running in every direction, you can't be this "nice". If your kids don't respect your authority as the grown ass adult in charge of keeping them alive, you're fucked.

I agree it is interesting. I like your thinking.

filming your young child during a tantrum and sharing it with strangers online to mansplain his idle views on parenting violates the child’s dignity and is harmful. It undermines trust and exploits the very emotions he claims to respect.

Equally I abhor heavy handed authoritarian parenting, where parents are the main characters. You can be tuned in, warm and present without letting your child grown up inconsiderate with no decent social sills. It's all about respecting them and guiding them. I'd never let a child run away and play silly games with me, there is a middle way, silly man.

Yes all this. Children need boundaries to feel safe. Parents need to provide these and be in charge. Some things can be negotiated its not all black and white but some things just aren't negotiable. And this clip is so grim and the child is too old to be behaving like this.

I actually wonder if the shift into a very child centered approach to parenting has been a factor (obviously not the only one) in the birth rate lowering. Like you say it would be impossible to take this approach with a larger family, some more extreme positions only seem feasible for only children.

You did! Definitely 30 years ago when I was a teenager. And people talked about permissive parenting. And plenty of people practiced parenting that involved listening to their kids and helping them understand why they shouldn't do things. But boundaries were generally set. As I think they mostly are, although I see a lot of parents who seem determined never to let their children feel disappointed.

Btw I am not saying I think we should be authoritarian as in be cold, horrible, not listen to our children, see not hear, hit them or any other nonsense. I classify that really as abusive so not sure how that’s even being characterised as authoritarian rather than neglect.

But yes before I knew authoritiative existed and thought it was a scale between permissive and authoritarian; I would say I was leaning more to authoritarian than permissive (struggle areas requiring more confidence building exempt).

I actually wonder if the shift into a very child centered approach to parenting has been a factor (obviously not the only one) in the birth rate lowering.

Actually that is interesting! This is precious first born extrapolated?

Because honestly I do think now something else is going on. As everyone is saying these parents arent stupid, or lazy, or uncaring. The opposite in fact! The parents I see doing this are highest in education, effort and empathy traits.

And I am not buying this is a response to boomer parenting. I think we forget boomer parents were 60s/ 70s teens. They were all free love thinking, most didnt hit. Some did have some fucked up toxic personality traits from being raised by older stricter generations but on the whole the children they produced clearly aren't that bad. Their kids turned out empathetic or we wouldnt be having this conversation.

And it cant all be social media parenting because as I said these people are educated to high levels.

So I don’t know. I do think something deep is happening in the collective psyche. It might be the 1 child thing, it could be the zeitgeist of societal collapse, or I could be overthinking this and it’s just plain group think. I always underestimate the power of group think!

filming your young child during a tantrum and sharing it with strangers online to mansplain his idle views on parenting violates the child’s dignity and is harmful. It undermines trust and exploits the very emotions he claims to respect.

And this made me laugh actually because maybe the kids right! They should be having a kick off about this but probably dont know why it’s not ok in order to articulate that. But deep down know they are a commodity.

Obviously thats not normal gentle parenting - but I was thinking maybe the reason kids are turning out tantrumy, and selfish in response to gentle parenting is not because of the gentle parenting itself. But because they can sense the parent really is fuming and being disingenuous, or anxious, or faking calm. Because if I can see that - surely they can and then they arent having the emotions modelled to them correctly and essentially can feel they are being gaslit even if they dont understand that yet.

I am really tripping myself out with this all now 😂 but I thank you all for entertaining this discussion. Its super interesting to me

Yes, my sister has the type of Noah that knows she’s the boss.

Totally agree

I do agree with this too. Most of us are “live parenting” figuring it out by trial & error. Same as the kid just learning as they grow. There’s no “one size fits all” when it comes to children.

I never understand why OPs of threads like this perceive themselves as some sort of outlier, the last bastion of common sense or something. The votes and almost all comments agree with you. You aren’t saying anything revolutionary or novel. It’s just same old “parents/children these days” where people as they transition through life stages think that everyone behind them is fucking it up. The people who don’t agree with you are not the majority. It’s fine.

I do think conversations about the inappropriateness of filming a child’s tantrum and putting it online are important though. That is new and should be discussed.

Omg! I hope you’re joking or not a parent.

I’d not describe my self as a ‘gentle’ parent. But I am a kind a reasonable one who expects (and gets) good behaviour. It’s crap to say ‘because I said so’. What is that teaching a child? And resorting to hitting is just crap, lazy and abusive parenting.

Well its been a relief!

When I started the thread wasn't sure which way was it was going to go! Glad I have found my people here. As I said for numerous reasons it’s starting to annoy me and good to get it off my chest.

I do actually really like these parents who do this stuff. So good for me to process separately. After talking about it and thinking about why my annoyance has moved to fascination of why. We are all just trying to do our best and I also wanted to check I wasn’t missing something major and actually just being an awful parent.

Finding out about this authoritative stuff is super helpful to me!

As for being an outlier, I am not an individual rebel but certainly not in the majority. I wonder if this is regional or class based if you are not seeing this?

@StrawberrySquash My DC are 30 and 33. No parent I knew said they were best friends with dc! Never ever heard it. Most guided dc and had high expectations but they didn’t negotiate and see dc as having the experience to make informed decisions. You must live in a different world to me. I’ve seen parents say this on SM, but not in real life. It’s wholly inappropriate for young dc too. No wonder they don’t learn how to behave.