Gentle parenting?

[Parentingconfusing]

I don’t even know whether this is gentle parenting. So ignore that phrase if it’s not.

But basically I am getting super confused. I have a preschooler and I would say about 75% of the parents around me have and do continue to parent like the parent in this Instagram video.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DTosvyLgma4

Now don’t get me wrong this instaguy is obviously really thoughful. He seems really kind. He’s doing his best so I am not meaning a judgement directly on him - who am I to judge anyway! But this is a perfect example of the type of parenting I see around me all the time. Which is useful as it’s difficult to describe.

And I just dont know. This is supposed to be making great well adjusted adults. But in honesty all I am seeing is parents having near heart attacks all the time in anxiety and panic whilst pretending to be super chill about it - but you can hear in their voice they really aren’t. Their children running off round corners and nearly running into roads - I did actually see one fall into a road last week after running round the corner not waiting or listening.

Constant negotiations and centering and walking on eggshells either because they are or it’s an expectation that they are on the verge of a meltdown - in a very mundane and normal situation.

So this post isn’t really about this insta video. It’s about the ethos it embodies. Which on the surface looks lovely and as a one off that’s potentially a really nice bonding resolution moment - but in reality that’s probably 10 times a day of conflict - (yes an assumption because I barely see these kids and everyone I know who does this parenting is having this atleast once on the school run or 3-4 times in a play date). And not to make it about this insta guy - but if you look on his timeline you literally have one filmed an hour later where he’s walking on eggshells trying to get this kid in a car. It’s not a one off. This is all the time!

And maybe that’s the point - I see this video or these instances occurring in RL and I see that as a conflict. Yet they are purposefully framing this as not a conflict - it’s character building, boundary bending, emotional regulation learning.

I don’t know. I am confused. 🫤

I am certainly no perfect parent. Far from it. But I am not walking on eggshells every two minutes and ‘being calm and trusting’ watching my kid run off and into roads 50m away or trying to convince them to get into a car.

Wiser people who have good well adjusted kids older than 30… What parenting should we really be aiming for?! This ‘gentle parenting’ stuff is crazy isn’t it?

We tried gentle parenting and the shock worked on DD temporarily. After that though we came to the conclusion she does need a firmer hand. I think a lot of gentle parents just slide into permissiveness. I also think some of it damaging, trying not to show anger etc. your kids will piss someone off at some point and they will be the target of anger and they need to know how to deal with that. They need to know people can get angry with each other and repair and forgive. Now I just tell mine I’m getting angry and she can see it, before it was worse because it was clear I was furious but trying not to show it so I’d have this horrible gordon brown rictus grin on my face.

Not a perfect parent by any means, but I give my kid plenty of opportunities for choice (she can take it in turns to choose restaurants etc) but there are times when I have to be very blunt and very strict and I think thats fine. It just didn’t work for us, mine definitely has what is euphemistically referred to as a “strong personality”. If you have a sensitive calm child it may work very well. I would say we do validate feelings, they exist, it’s fine to be angry about stuff for example it’s what you do with that anger that matters, it’s not an opportunity to lash out. It’s fine to be sad, everyone feels like that at some point. I do expect her to get a grip and get on with it.

Yes exactly, they have to face the world at some point. The idea of co-regulation is helping them to eventually learn to self regulate. I’m not sure that works really, most if us learn to regulate enough by ourselves by being around people who just went “pack it in” rather than anyone actively co-regulating with us.

I think I acknowledge my DD’s feelings rather than validating them actually. I absolutely believe she feels they way she does but I don’t always agree they are valid iysiw.

I always wonder if the work environment will change because the masses of people growing up unregulated like this. I hope my previous career still need well adjusted resilient people because tbh if people raise their kids weak, it just gives my kids the upper hand and makes the playing field less competitive. That works for me. That's why I've never honestly been that bothered by gentle parenting, let them 😂 or permissive or whatever people want to call it. People change the names of shit every decade or so once the current word gets "offensive" because people misuse etc - whatever you want to call that type of parenting.

Focus on your parenting op and what yields best results for their dreams, your dreams and peace in your household.

I like mommacusses on Instagram. She gentle parents - no hitting, minimal shouting, but there are consequences and no's alongside the choices.

Letting your kid run the show and being scared to say no = lazy and sometimes really unsafe parenting.
Smacking/relying on fear to control your kids = lazy and also unsafe parenting.
Treating kids like human beings with their own needs and emotions whilst ensuring they have boundaries and understand what part of a family and wider society means = better parenting.

Seeing a young kid run off or not listen to their parents doesn’t necessarily mean they’re a ‘victim’ of bad parenting - kids are still kids with things like impulse control issues. Tantrums are also developmentally normal and plenty of kids will double down on the crying/stalling/battling if they’re met with shouting or anger from their parent. Being ‘gentle’ can make the tantrum finish much quicker than getting into a weird ‘argument’ with a toddler (who isn’t able to reason when they’re that upset). Managing adult emotions whilst helping your kid regulate is great but not always realistic and kids should see their parents experiencing different emotions. As kids grow up, boundaries and expectations change and strategies will need to too. But regardless of age, kids find a lot of comfort knowing their parents are in control, can deal with their outbursts and provide consistent boundaries whilst allowing them to be themselves and explore the world and make mistakes.

Gentle parenting isn’t a particularly helpful label now as it’s been used too often to describe permissive parenting. Somewhere between smacking your kid and letting them run riot is ‘good’ parenting and that will look slightly different to all of us depending on our kids’ temperaments and family dynamics.

Stop using the internet as gospel. Just because something is labelled gentle parenting doesn't mean it is. Do your own research into what it really means, not what tiktok and your friends tekl you.

What you're seeing, and choosing to apply to everything is not gentle parenting. But it's fun to call it that and have a smug rant on Mumsnet about it isn't it?

My kids are nothing like this, I wouldn't parent them any other way than I do. Everyone situation is different, do what works for you.

3 mins plus to sort a tantrum and the child has run off out of sight.

This!

None of my friends use a parenting textbook or philosophy. We are all just trying our best. We definitely do say no to our kids and tell them off but we try and avoid some of the more problematic parenting practices.

Kids are all different anyway. And the ones I've taught who were most difficult were parented either incredibly laxly or far too strictly so they rebelled at school.

I am quite a lax parent as I am an easy going person, we don’t have loads of rules but I do have hard boundaries about stuff like running into roads. I don't follow a script but I do apologise if I lose my rag.

That's all good when it in a safe and private environment. Sadly, kids tend to gave tantrums in unsafe and public places.

What if in this situation, he has a 6 months old baby just strapped in the car? He leaves the baby unattended whilst he waits for his elder to self regulate. Ridiculous.

Traching to self regulate is good, but not when what you are teaching your child that their need to do so trumps everything and anyone else. So sometimes....most of the times, you as a parent has to take matter in your own hands and just remove the child from the situation so that they learn that more experienced beings do usually know better than they do.

To help children develop a sense of self, they need clear rules and boundaries. This doesn’t mean shouting or being authoritarian but providing a sense of leadership. When children understand that adults are in charge and a clear set of rules is in place, they grasp expectations and can explore the world safely with confidence. Allowing children to set their own rules can lead to insecurity and a lack of direction. For me, the term 'gentle parenting' doesn't hold much meaning, as my guidance is based on how I was raised, with clear rules, open dialogue, and clear leadership. I have become a successful adult and recall a joyful childhood where I knew my parents' expectations, which were reasonable. Most importantly, I felt loved by my parents despite occasional ‘no’s and conflicts, which stemmed from their firm but caring upbringing.

I’ve never met a gentle parent yet that actually gentle parented. They all permissive parented. Their kids are fuckers as little ones and nasty as they get older.

While "gentle parenting" isn't the same as "permissive parenting" it is very easy to get it wrong and end up just pleading and negotiating with your children.

Also, I doubt that most parents have actually read any books on gentle parenting, they're just watching a few tiktoks and trying to recreate it. Or imitating what they see other parents doing without understanding that it (theoretically) should still involve having boundaries.

I suspect that when the generation of gently parented children has worked through the trauma of of their wants meeting reality in not so gentle ways that we are going to see a generation of quite authoritarian (not authoritative) parents. And the gentle parents who parented them will feel hurt by accusations that they set their children up for failure.

I've said this before but I think discussions on gentle parenting will often turn into the no true Scotsman fallacy. I think it's more helpful to discuss it as a broad concept because there is a lot that will done or discussed as gentle parenting and it's genuine meaning isn't easily defined.

I see no value in parroting phrases from a text book aimed at 'validating' your child's feelings when they're in the middle of feeling the feelings.
Telling a child you know they're upset at leaving the park is pointless, and deeply frustrating for them if you're not going to change your mind and let them stay at the park. It prolongs a difficult situation that can be better managed with a brisk and cheery "Well, it's time to go, but we'll do (whatever) when we get home".
The time to show your child that you care about their feelings is all the time.
Its in the way you listen to them, the time you make to talk and ask them how they felt about this, do they prefer that, embedded into your everyday, not wheeled out as a conflict management technique.
Its the actions you take that SHOW you empathise, and translates empathy into something that actually helps; that you know they hate leaving the park so you plan sonething to look forward to to cheer them up afterwards.
Its the effort you make to learn your own individual child, what makes them tick, rather than applying someone else's generic theory.
It's having enough respect to want a genuine relationship where you use your words and show them who you are in return.
If you show respect and genuineness and feel empathy and act on it, I think you can create a healthy relationship that's bespoke to you and your child without the need for prescriptive techniques.

I think the problem is that parents have been told by too many frozen faced instagrammers that saying “no” or enforcing consequences will emotionally damage their kids, whereas for 90% of kids an adult who has very clear boundaries is actually what helps kids feel happy and secure. Basically they know what’s expected of them and who’s in charge! And as parents I think we need to realise that your kids aren’t going to hate you if they don’t get their own way all the time or you discipline them (appropriately).

There’s also a trend for “over sharing” or being best friends with your kids which again doesn’t help- I have my own friends and my kids aren’t included in them!

I would never hit my children and physically punish them, we try to talk things through, but I absolutely do say no, I raise my voice if I need to and if I have a consequence (if you behave like that again we are going home/ leaving the party/ you will not watch TV for the rest of the day), it gets followed through 100%. I haven’t seen a situation where negotiating with a child benefits anyone TBH.

Gentle parenting actually has boundaries and consequences (even natural ones where possible, eg you broke your toy so now you don’t have that toy. No, you can’t have your sibling’s toy. Enforced consequences if natural ones aren’t appropriate, eg in unsafe conditions or around non negotiable things like toothbrushing or car seats. But with an explanation and understanding, and an apology if you have had to be angry or force eg a seatbelt on).

Permissive parenting is as damaging as authoritarian parenting, I think. You have kids who never feel safe, because they have no fences around what they can choose to do, and who don’t understand that other people have to be considered as well as themselves. I also see in permissive families that often one kid will be utterly spoilt and another will constantly have to go without because their sibling is more strident or insistent (so eg kid A breaks their toy and makes such a fuss that the permissive parenting actually has begs kid B to just give up their toy and “be kind because kid A is so sad”).

It’s like the difference between being nice and being kind, where kind actually means having boundaries which take other people into consideration and in the longer term, cause fewer upsets and problems than being ‘nice’ for the sake of a moment’s social awkwardness- eg saying yes when you mean no leads to you disappointing someone down the line, or your yes to one person means another person suffering or missing out. Do you see what I mean?

It is okay to be devastated about a cut up pear though - that is (hopefully) the worst thing that has happened in their life. But then you take them through calming down, healthy ways to express feelings, so that when they go to the real world they can do all this for themselves.

That being said, you’re right in that it will suit for kids than others.

And if that's what works for you and your family then that's great, but realistically all of that wouldn't have taken any less time than his approach did, if anything that sounds a much longer process. I don't think it would reduce the likelihood of a further tantrum either. Doing what you've described isn't going to cure a stroppy four year old in the longterm any quicker than his method will. They're just two slightly different methods for dealing with the same problem.

As a general rule you want to give as little attention and energy to a tantrum as possible, don't feed the fire. This is exactly what he did. No explanations and negotiations he just let her crack on with being sulky, took his attention away completely and less than a minute later she came round the corner and it was sorted.

I think his approach is better than the one you describe. Although as I said, the smug narrative is horrendous and filming his children when they're vulnerable/upset and putting it online is despicable so I'm not a fan generally. The behaviour management in this clip was pretty good though.

Really interesting reading everyone’s points.

I have done some reading now and agree with everyone saying it’s permissive parenting I am seeing.

It’s saying the alternatives are broadly grouped as authoritative, authoritarian and neglectful. So where does gentle parenting fit in there? And what’s the difference between authoritative and gentle parenting?

And to those saying it’s lazy parenting - honestly that is not what I am seeing. The permissive parenting I see is very active, it’s A LOT of effort, continuously, always centering child, always giving choice and waiting for their decisions, always controlling your emotion to extremely neutral even against every grain of instinct. These are not bad neglectful parents, nor lazy ones. The effort they put in to implement this is quite something - it’s purposeful and it is consistent.

This is why I started this convo. Not to sound smug which some are saying. But because I am finding this confusing. On many levels I would say these are perfect parents, when our kids were younger I thought gosh wish I more like that and felt a bit shamed sometimes about my blunt nos.

But as times going on I am now thinking this isn’t perfect at all! And yes I am starting to get a bit judgy and annoyed by it. Not smug - there’s a difference, Because it does affect my child when he sees this - he is very confused by it. Sometimes he copies this behaviour and sometimes it just naturally occurs when in company of permissive parents - then I am in a world of difficulty with a clash of worlds to how I respond. Me setting a firm quick stern boundary whilst another parent is there negotiating the Brexit deal just does not work. So it does make my life more difficult and sometimes we have to have conversations about these interactions themselves. With a 4 year old about another 4 year old and their parent - which is insane! What am I supposed to say to these questions.

So it does affect my life. And that’s why I wanted to talk about it

This is what I have learned from my 26 years parenting and what worked for me and my family, not to boast (oh this is a total boast) but people who meet my adult sons always comment on their beautiful manners and responsible attitudes, so!

Children (most children) thrive on boundaries. They need to know where they stand in a huge and scary world. If we provide a safe environment where they feel secure they learn best and feel most comfortable. I brought mine up to knowing my word was final, I apologised immediately if I made a mistake and made sure they knew my love was unequivocal and always there. There were some battles of course but we seem to have negotiated them well. The kids I see now who were 'gentle' or 'permissive' parented seem a little boggled that the world isn't there just for them and will adjust its shape to suit them.

And I know this wasn't in any of your OP but SPORT, get them into a regular form of exercise, swimming if they are individually motivated football or similar if they like a team. It honestly teaches them so much and if they can learn to enjoy exercise going in to adulthood then it's a huge bonus. Plus there are always rules in sport whatever you do so they have to learn boundaries and doing as they are told, great for when they become adults in jobs.

I agree about the filming. I did think twice about posting it because of that. But it’s a perfect illustration of what I am talking about and it’s impossible to describe it because on paper it IS perfect. When you look at it you also think that’s nice. But I am now thinking no it’s really not perfect and I am struggling to understand or articulate why I even think that.

I am getting a bit philosophical here but I am wondering whether the idea that good behaviour is inherent human form and not something which is learnt and practiced. Managing it like this to me is assuming that one day 4 yo will grow out of running away and tantruming just through virtue of brain development of natural age. Is that the thinking behind this?

I like mommacusses on Instagram. She gentle parents - no hitting, minimal shouting, but there are consequences and no's alongside the choices.
Why is this gentle parentng to me this is normal parenting. I never hit or shouted at any of my 4 children. There is no need to shout at kid's that's the parents losing control of their emotions.

Has anyone noticed since the gentle parenting trend started how messed up kids have become. We have a generation of kids with poor mh who can't cope with life.

I used to shout “get back here or I’m going”. Always worked. Brought up two beautifully-mannered, well-adjusted sons.