To be confused as to why hiring a cleaner is seen as an indulgence?

[Gahr]

This is something that I see time and again on this site, and it is SO WEIRD. People seem to think that it is the height of luxury to have a housecleaner, and also seem to be strangely apologetic about it, offering disclaimers as to why they need one. Also, I've noticed that on threads when someone has a problem with their cleaning service, they will get several posts telling them to 'clean their own house'. Nobody would tell someone to 'service their own boiler' or 'fix their own toilet'! I don't understand it at all. I have a cleaner and I wouldn't be without her.

Im not comparing it to proper training in the gym but the overwhelming majority of the population don’t do proper training in the gym! None of my friends do and all fit and healthy.

It is comparable to alot of fitness - i.e going for a run, a walk, an exercise class. Doing a full day cleaming the house (properly - not turning on a robot hoover) 😂 is a good general workout for your body. Ask a cleaner if cleaning keeps them fit. I properly clean on my day off and can tell you it is a good workout.

... Yes, that's what I said?

How often and how long does the cleaner come for?

Twice a week, for two hours each time.

You said ‘would love a cleaner but can't afford one’

so no, you didn’t say that.

Pretty much. A lot of these arguments saying 'can't afford one' is people saying that they can't afford one AND a luxury car/5starholiday/school fees. Which is fine, but isn't the same as saying you absolute can't find the money. You just choose to put it elsewhere.

If I employed one of these people directly, then of course I would care about their wellbeing.

Of course there are. My cleaner is a woman, but I would have no objection to employing a man. Most of Mumsnet thinks that all men are rapists, though, so I would imagine that I am in a minority there.

It is none of my business how my cleaner spends her time and money. If I am paying a fair wage, which I am, then the rest is up to her.

??

I could stop the holidays and pay for a cleaner instead but I've chosen the holidays. - is literally a direct quote from my first post, acknowledging I'd made a choice in my 'luxury'?

Maybe I didn't explain my point well and if that's the case then I apologise but my point was that when someone says they have a cleaner it can bring to mind someone with a large house with multiple holidays a year who has the extra surplus for a cleaner on top of those things. Which is not necessarily true. One could be disabled and paying for cleaning is an easier option or one could not spend much on other 'luxuries' so they can afford their cleaner, not meaning they are particularly rich or well off.

My point is almost exactly the same as yours in that we all choose what 'luxuries' we want to pay for. Even 'multiple holidays a year' could bring to mind a certain lifestyle that I'm certain I'm not living!

Really, if you work full time with young children, wouldn’t you rather spend the time with them rather than cleaning?

Ours costs £100 a week. It’s defo a luxury!

I have a young child and we put the music up loud and clean together sometimes. We dance around while we're doing it, chase toys around with the vacuum etc.

I see it as time with her and teaching her some life skills to set her up when she's out on her own. Because you can likely guarantee in this economy that she'll not have the money to pay her essential bills AND for things like a cleaner, at least not when she's starting out.

I think on MN everyone does and will criticize men for not cleaning! I agree with you in that I don't get the judgment around having a cleaner. But, it is definitely an indulgence, given how much it costs, and given it is something I can do for myself. I am lucky I can afford it, and it is what I choose to spend part of my disposable income on (rather than takeaways, nights out at the pub etc).

A restaurant meal/takeaways are a luxury for alot of the population. No issue with people having a cleaner if short on time. Your original post said it shouldn’t be considered a luxury/indulgence - it is for the majority of people. Meals out, holidays, cleaners are all luxuries for alot of people.

I dont have a cleaner but I do have a couple of meals out a month and holidays and I feel massively fortunate for those things. They are luxuries many don’t have. They are part of our normal life but im able to recognise they are luxuries for alot of people.

A few people on the thread mentioned they'd worked as domestic cleaners- I'd be quite interested to know whether many single men (who aren't elderly/physically disabled) hire cleaners? I find it quite hard to imagine tbh. I'd have thought that it was mainly busy families or older people who employ them.

Also not sure why people are saying that no one would dare comment if a single man hired a cleaner? Of course they bloody would! I can't think of anyone I know younger than my grandparents generation who wouldn't raise an eyebrow at it! Sure, some people work such incredibly long hours that they might lack time to do it- but if you're out at work all that time and don't have other people living there, you aren't really going to generate a lot of mess anyway.

Technically, I could afford one, though some of the steeper quotes on this thread make me wince, but I really wouldn't like having someone come into my house and clean up my mess around me. I'd feel incredibly uncomfortable with it.

I would love a cleaner. I can barely afford 3 meals a day. It is absolutely a luxury.
No judgement for utilising a luxury, but that's absolutely what it is.

I don't feel uncomfortable with it at all - I am always either WFH or in the office when she comes. I am working, she is working, I don't feel embarrassed about that, why should I?

I suspect more single men than single women live in filth, and that that is why they are single.

For me, it’s just maths. If my hourly rate after tax is greater than what I would pay a cleaner, it makes sense for me to do more work and less cleaning, especially as I enjoy it more. This makes me richer not poorer. And my cleaner has a job. Seems good all round to me.

@EarthlyNightshade I don’t understand . are you saying you hope the cleaner earns enough and doesn’t have to work too many hours so she can afford to go to the gym too like her employer that can afford luxuries like a cleaner and gym membership?

I’m starting to lose the point of the thread. Is it that the OP feels judged for having a cleaner? Because of course that is ridiculous. Your money, your choice. But it comes across that you don’t see it as a luxury. To me anything that isn’t completely essential is a luxury really. This is what brings us joy or pleasure. Due to the cost of living people people are having to cut back on luxury’s. We ( two working parents) made the choice to no longer have cleaner as we can’t afford that and to do the other things like swimming lessons for the kids and an annual holiday. Other people may prioritise differently. That is fine. But I understand that everything I can chose to pay for is a luxury and other people may be less fortunate. Someone mention takeaway coffees, they are often the first thing people mention when they say about making cutbacks so not sure why someone suggested they were not a luxury.

I think people are just pointing out how much many people are struggling financially, and so saying a cleaner isn’t a luxury feels rather tone deaf. I know very few people with a cleaner this days, most people I know work public sector/ professional/ nhs type jobs. No judgement of someone does though, if my disposable income increases I would absolutely consider it, and enjoy it.

I had a cleaner when I'd just had my second dc. To be honest I felt really uncomfortable paying someone to come to my house to clean it. I'm not sure why as we have a gardener to cut the grass and hedges and keep the garden ticking over once a month, maybe it felt too personal to have a cleaner. Most of my friends don't have cleaners.

Of course, but it's still not in the same category as boiler man for me, making it a luxury. A comparison with painter and decorater would have been more apt.

yes sure nobody says cleaning isn't physical. I was just stating that if the argument is I should do my own cleaning to keep fit, I would rather use the time to go to the gym and pay someone to do my cleaning.