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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be confused as to why hiring a cleaner is seen as an indulgence?

1000 replies

Gahr · 31/01/2026 10:09

This is something that I see time and again on this site, and it is SO WEIRD. People seem to think that it is the height of luxury to have a housecleaner, and also seem to be strangely apologetic about it, offering disclaimers as to why they need one. Also, I've noticed that on threads when someone has a problem with their cleaning service, they will get several posts telling them to 'clean their own house'. Nobody would tell someone to 'service their own boiler' or 'fix their own toilet'! I don't understand it at all. I have a cleaner and I wouldn't be without her.

OP posts:
marcyhermit · 31/01/2026 14:54

Grammarnut · 31/01/2026 14:52

No, I don't feel superior to cleaners and childminders. My mother was a cleaner. DiL has been a carer. I have been a childminder and I am most definitely working class - father was a semi-skilled worker and mother was a char lady and much of my childhood was spent living in one or two rented rooms and at last in a 2 bed maisonette over a shop; my parents never managed to buy a house.
You are reading something into what I said that isn't there. I am pointing out that these service providers are part of the precariat and also are the low paid foundation of neo-liberal capitalism, which does not value their work, nor the labour that women in general put in for free to keep the economy running.
It's a mildly Marxist analysis, I suppose (and Marx was an example of the people who take advantage of the w/c, hypocrite).

You were a childminder but you didn't know that childminders aren't employed, use cleaners and serve working class families?

labamba18 · 31/01/2026 14:54

It is a luxury. But so is a bottle of wine. A bar of chocolate. A car valet. A car that’s ‘nicer’ than a bog standard car. Holidays abroad etc

There are lots of luxuries we all indulge in. However, I have a sneaking feeling that the cleaner guilt comes from women being judged by how well they can keep their homes clean - and a cleaner is seen as cheating.

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 31/01/2026 14:57

Gahr · 31/01/2026 10:12

I really don't, no. All my friends have one, and while we are comfortable, we are not wealthy.
Also, even if it was a 'luxury' what of it? Everyone chooses to spend their money on different things,

Edited

It's not an issue that it's a luxury. But it is a luxury. You could clean your own house, you choose not to and you choose to pay someone else to. But pretending it's NOT a luxury and acting like you can't understand how people couldn't justify the expense, or in fact afford it, shows that you're a bit out of touch.

Allseeingallknowing · 31/01/2026 14:57

marcyhermit · 31/01/2026 14:40

Surely grandma's at work?
Where do you live that no one is using childcare?

Grandma might be busy enjoying her life, not childminding !

Grammarnut · 31/01/2026 14:58

Ebok1990 · 31/01/2026 14:01

OK, back the truck up a minute. Can you elaborate on your transgender comment, as I want to make sure I clearly understand your point.

Ok. Elaboration on trans point. It is, sadly, mainly m/c women working in middle management e.g. HR who are enforcing the idea that transwomen are women. Above them are women like Philipson (and others) who don't see the problem fo TWAW but only discrimination against poor, vulnerable transwomen. These women do not have to negotiate changing rooms, toilets, refuges and prisons where their policies affect women. Examples are both the Darlington nurses, berated for objecting to a trans-identified man in their changing rooms, and Sandie Peggie in Fife, disciplined because she upset a doctor (class in play here, doctors outrank nurss) who identified as a woman and insisted on watching her undress in the women's changing rooms. Women like Philipson and Baroness Chakrabarti, are never likely to need to negotiate these spaces and have no understanding why women faced with such situations want them stopped.
That's what I meant by a luxury belief - you can hold it because it doesn't affect your life.

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 31/01/2026 15:00

Gahr · 31/01/2026 10:21

You have a very strange idea of luxury if you think a car wash and having your windows cleaned counts as it!

You have a strange idea of what is essential and what is "extra".

I can clean my own house, windows and car. I don't NEED to pay for that to happen. I NEED to pay the mortgage and the bills. I would PREFER not to have to clean my own car and windows, so I CHOOSE to pay extra to have someone else do it.

If it's outside of essential, it's a luxury. It's that simple. When you run out of money at the end of the month (maybe you don't but ma y do), you cut out luxuries like chocolate, wine, etc. Many people would also cut out paying for a car wash. Because it's a luxury to not do it yourself.

Icannotremembermyusername · 31/01/2026 15:02

My opinion changed on this after reading The No1 Ladies Detective Agency. There was a part in it where Mme Ramotswe reflects that we all should help each other and that those that can afford to should help distribute wealth by offering someone that chance to work as a cleaner/housekeeper for example . So you are in effect helping someone and they help you. It stuck with me and I thought it was just a simple philosophy that resonated with me. I know this was set in Botswana that it is totally different to the UK but the idea is that same. I now have a cleaner, I work full time, it came up in conversation with a good friend that she could do with some extra cleaning work(she services rental properties for holiday lets) and I could do with a cleaner house! a win win situation. I gain., she gains.

Stompythedinosaur · 31/01/2026 15:03

But it's hardly an essential. So it's a luxury. That doesn't mean it's wrong. When they can, lots of people spend money on luxury things.

Dreamlava · 31/01/2026 15:04

How many in your household out of interest @Gahr ? Do you work?

Grammarnut · 31/01/2026 15:06

marcyhermit · 31/01/2026 14:40

Surely grandma's at work?
Where do you live that no one is using childcare?

I live in a city in the Midlands. I really do not know anyone who uses formal childcare. That isn't the same as saying no-one does, of course. I am myself a grandmother. I neither work outside the home (which is not the same as not working, of course) or provide childcare for my DGC (except on an occasion nearly as rare as hen's teeth).

Goldwren1923 · 31/01/2026 15:07

Grammarnut · 31/01/2026 13:11

Contractors, then, if you will. Still the gig economy. Still m/c women using the labour of w/c/less economically secure women to do the labour they do not want to do/don't have time to do - and probably their partner won't share (which is another aspect of the problem).

Why is it different from any other type of contractor or freelancer? Or even full time employees?

Dreamlava · 31/01/2026 15:08

Grammarnut · 31/01/2026 15:06

I live in a city in the Midlands. I really do not know anyone who uses formal childcare. That isn't the same as saying no-one does, of course. I am myself a grandmother. I neither work outside the home (which is not the same as not working, of course) or provide childcare for my DGC (except on an occasion nearly as rare as hen's teeth).

You don’t know anyone who uses a nursery or nanny @Grammarnut ?

marcyhermit · 31/01/2026 15:09

Icannotremembermyusername · 31/01/2026 15:02

My opinion changed on this after reading The No1 Ladies Detective Agency. There was a part in it where Mme Ramotswe reflects that we all should help each other and that those that can afford to should help distribute wealth by offering someone that chance to work as a cleaner/housekeeper for example . So you are in effect helping someone and they help you. It stuck with me and I thought it was just a simple philosophy that resonated with me. I know this was set in Botswana that it is totally different to the UK but the idea is that same. I now have a cleaner, I work full time, it came up in conversation with a good friend that she could do with some extra cleaning work(she services rental properties for holiday lets) and I could do with a cleaner house! a win win situation. I gain., she gains.

I like this approach, spend your money in your community.
I could paint my house myself but I'd rather pay a dad from school to do it if I can afford to. He did a much better job than I could have.
My cleaner is another working mum.
I treat myself by going to my neighbour's salon to get my nails done when I can.

Grammarnut · 31/01/2026 15:09

marcyhermit · 31/01/2026 14:54

You were a childminder but you didn't know that childminders aren't employed, use cleaners and serve working class families?

They are self-employed, clearly, and I employ their services, or am a customer of them. Yes, they serve w/c families but we are talking of the outsourcing of domestic labour from a higher earning woman to a lower earning woman.

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 31/01/2026 15:10

Grammarnut · 31/01/2026 15:06

I live in a city in the Midlands. I really do not know anyone who uses formal childcare. That isn't the same as saying no-one does, of course. I am myself a grandmother. I neither work outside the home (which is not the same as not working, of course) or provide childcare for my DGC (except on an occasion nearly as rare as hen's teeth).

I live just outside two of the major cities in the Midlands, I and everyone I work with who has children the same age as mine use formal childcare.

So, now you know of at least 7 people in the area who do.

MasterBeth · 31/01/2026 15:11

@ObelixtheGaul

I've fought all my life against the view that people in honest, unskilled employment should be regarded as 'less than'. And I'm afraid that, despite your claim that you don't look down on the actual cleaners, I think you do.

Well, I guess you're entitled to think what you like but, you know, how fucking dare you.

Maybe you should get honest, unskilled employment as a mind-reader if you know what's in my head better than I do.

Needlenardlenoo · 31/01/2026 15:12

Grammarnut · 31/01/2026 14:23

WOMEN, thank you, because although men benefit from e.g. the cleaner they do not generally consider the cleaning and domestic job theirs. And society agrees with this, which is why domestic work and childcare are poorly paid and mostly done by WOMEN, either as a low-paid job or by doing it domestically.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm pointing out that as long as we leave the actions of men out of the discussion, it's contributing to the misogyny. This is not, by and large, a problem created by women.

If it is a problem. People can spend their money as they want on anything legal, as far as I'm concerned.

NomTook · 31/01/2026 15:12

Grammarnut · 31/01/2026 15:06

I live in a city in the Midlands. I really do not know anyone who uses formal childcare. That isn't the same as saying no-one does, of course. I am myself a grandmother. I neither work outside the home (which is not the same as not working, of course) or provide childcare for my DGC (except on an occasion nearly as rare as hen's teeth).

Did you work outside the home when your children were at school?

marcyhermit · 31/01/2026 15:13

Grammarnut · 31/01/2026 15:09

They are self-employed, clearly, and I employ their services, or am a customer of them. Yes, they serve w/c families but we are talking of the outsourcing of domestic labour from a higher earning woman to a lower earning woman.

So you're drawing a distinction between situations where the parent (or mother?) earns more than the childminder, and where they earn the same or less?

EarthlyNightshade · 31/01/2026 15:15

Gahr · 31/01/2026 10:19

Exactly. I think that there's a lot of misogyny at the root of it. I bet nobody would criticise a man for not cleaning his own house.

Is your cleaner male?
Do they have a cleaner or do they clean their own house?

I have no objection to people having cleaners if they can afford it. However, they are definitely not doing as their bit to combat misogyny,

Ebok1990 · 31/01/2026 15:16

Grammarnut · 31/01/2026 14:58

Ok. Elaboration on trans point. It is, sadly, mainly m/c women working in middle management e.g. HR who are enforcing the idea that transwomen are women. Above them are women like Philipson (and others) who don't see the problem fo TWAW but only discrimination against poor, vulnerable transwomen. These women do not have to negotiate changing rooms, toilets, refuges and prisons where their policies affect women. Examples are both the Darlington nurses, berated for objecting to a trans-identified man in their changing rooms, and Sandie Peggie in Fife, disciplined because she upset a doctor (class in play here, doctors outrank nurss) who identified as a woman and insisted on watching her undress in the women's changing rooms. Women like Philipson and Baroness Chakrabarti, are never likely to need to negotiate these spaces and have no understanding why women faced with such situations want them stopped.
That's what I meant by a luxury belief - you can hold it because it doesn't affect your life.

Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

Legomania · 31/01/2026 15:17

We have a cleaner, because we can. DH and I both work full-time, and evenings and weekends are busy.
I don't feel guilty taking up a service that someone else is offering. We do value it - it would definitely be one of the last discretionary spending things to go if our circumstances changed.
I find the whole self-deprecating "she does it so much better than I ever could/it's so difficult" thing irritating - it's not difficult, (though obviously a pro will be faster and more efficient through practice).

Bloozie · 31/01/2026 15:18

I used to have a cleaner - for years and years - but money is really tight at the moment so we had to let her go about 4 months ago.

Now we are cleaning ourselves, the house is cleaner that it has ever been, me and my husband are actually getting a lot of satisfaction out of feeling like we are living in a space that we are invested in, and I won't rehire a cleaner if our financial situation improves.

I typically work 10 hour days, sometimes more. Finding the time to clean isn't a problem.

So yes, I've realised it's both a luxury to have a cleaner, and one that I personally would now feel guilty about.

MrFluffyDogIsMyBestFriend · 31/01/2026 15:18

BIossomtoes · 31/01/2026 10:23

The you’ve got more money than sense and she’s laughing all the way to the bank.

No she isn't - that's the going rate these days. Cleaning has always commanded a higher salary than minimum wage because it's such hard work.

Self-employed cleaning has been a very convenient job for me over the years as jobs are very easy to get and it's very flexible. As long as clients understand that cleaners aren't necessarily cleaning because they're uneducated or somehow inferior, then there's no problem.

FellowSuffereroftheAbsurd · 31/01/2026 15:20

Why should I outsource a horrible job that I CBA to do to someone else? I made the mess, I should clear it up, not throw money at someone else. It just feels like a hangover from Upstairs Downstairs.

It's likely everyone here is already outsourcing the responsibilities of horrible tasks like what goes down the toilet to be managed elsewhere, or the waste taken away in the bins, or growing/raising and processing the vast majority of foods for safe consumption...so many unpleasant jobs largely handled by others, with money thrown at them by taxes and/or our own pocket...why is cleaning the house the responsibility where it crosses the line?

I grew up with family members who'd lived much of their lives doing all of that for themselves. When they were able to live lives where they didn't need to do that, it wasn't a source of disdain, but relief. None of them were British, and there does seem to be a particular cultural mindset - and I'm not convinced it's Upstairs Downstairs, not when there are already so many worse tasks that we accept others help with.

It is a question as to why, particularly in the UK, there is this the guilt / disdain / ideas around outsourcing and responsibility around a cleaner and not any of these other horrible tasks where (general) you've either made a mess that needs to be cleaned or have a need that needs to met that involves dealing with mess that someone has to do for it to be done.

Also, people can and do clean up after themselves, and have a cleaner to help with certain tasks/clean things to a deeper level, just like we can put our stuff in the bin and take the bin out, and someone else collects it. It's not either/or - I mean where I work, we clean up after ourselves, our building manager is meticulous about any food being left out, and there are still multiple cleaners to handle the natural accumulation of dust and fingerprints and such that happens from an old building that has dozens if not hundreds of people in and out each day.

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