To not get the visceral levels of hatred people have for Keir Starmer

[LastChristmasigaveyousomesocks]

I’m not suggesting he’s the greatest prime minister ever. I’m not even suggesting he’s good at all. But some people really, really passionately hate him.

He is a bit insipid and doesn’t have much charisma but overall he seems like a decent enough bloke who perhaps lacks the political skill and acumen he needs. He’s out of his depth basically.

But that’s not a reason to actually despise someone is it?

When did we get to a point where we can’t just disagree without painting the other person as the devil incarnate?

There have been some successful campaigns to get Labour to change. Their policies were bad to start with so it’s no great shakes for them.

The local elections got them on that u turn path, wonder what the next will bring, if they let all the votes go ahead even better. Since people are sure they’re liked it won’t be an issue for them.

How is it deflecting to point out facts? Pubs have been declining for years. Covid didn't help.

Young people drinking less. Fact

Half of young adults are now choosing no & low-alcohol drinks | Drinkaware https://share.google/q74PIXn1yWfeizGq7

Young people are socialising more on-line. Fact.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/feb/10/meet-generation-stay-at-home-dont-pay-to-go-clubbing-watch-it-at-home-on-your-phone

Pubs have been declining for a long time. Fact.

Why do pubs close? — London Pub Explorer share.google/n5yMcKoSypZMUbGGa

BTW I am not a "strong Labour supporter". I am very critical of Labour and a floating voter atm.

Quite so.

They appear content to test policy with the electorate before going to their back benches for approval - such is the dearth of intellect and leadership in the cabinet. McSweeney is evidently pulling Starmer’s strings.

It's not "debunked" and not a myth - it's a common occurrence. You can see for yourself putting your own numbers into the "entitledto" website.

You can call it benefit bashing - I call it common sense. Will I get a pay rise if I choose to have another kid. No I will not.

And yes I was very concerned awaiting the budget with all the speculation about what was being considered and nothing being said to reassure the public. I've stopped saving into the pensions I was doing for my kids - as I realise that Labour "might" push the age for claiming it back, "might" scrap the 25% tax free and pensions "might" be means tested by then. They already are to an extent with pension credit. Yes it's very concerning to have no idea what is coming.

Those who are beneficiaries of state largesse (either directly or indirectly) will never brook any criticism of the welfare state.

It comes up time and time again, thread to thread.

But surely you believe in the free market?

We rightly helped out businesses during Covid, we no longer have Covid, so why should a struggling sector still get help?

Now, i think its good they'll help the pub sector but i also don't get the indignation from the right.... or is it opportunism.... after all Sunak dodged businesses rates when he was PM and just extended it for all businesses, including extremely wealthy ones...

Do you support what he did?

The Right are always the same, want the goodies, but moan when it comes to paying for them.....

Uh? You get extra Child benefit, you'll get £1000s in free tax payer funded childcare...

Quite happy to take my taxes to pay for your life style choices.......

Nothing like kicking the remaining businesses down by piling on more costs though. An otherwise viable pub that has clung on despite our changing habits should not be put out of business by the government. It should be supported.

It’s that lack of insight and ability that has resulted in Starmer’s current rating. Not just him of course, Reeves and the party generally.

It was debunked. It was confected rubbish from a right wing think tank. If you think state pensions are likely to be means tested or increase the age of eligibility surely that’s all the more reason to pay as much as you can into your own pension pot and benefit from the tax relief?

Why? where do you draw the line and who pays for it?

You seem to be suggesting all businesses should be tax payer subsidised if they are struggling...

We drink less, pubs then have to charge more, so we drink even less in pubs...

Like i said, 10,000 pubs shut down between 2010 and 2024...

Hahahaha.

I absolutely believe in a free market - so, if Labour choose to increase taxation on a particular sector, and that sector declines because of it - then the government need to own it, including job losses, loss of tax receipts, youth unemployment etc. As to post-covid support, let’s extend that to those on benefits, shall we? Following your logic.

Ironically, one of your fellow posters on here was blaming Thatcher for the decline of UK shipbuilding and steel making yesterday - I made the argument that the reasons were exogenous, and not Thatcher. You see the difference, I hope.

As to your final paragraph, it’s the left who believe in the magic money tree. All is well in their world, until they are forced to put their hand in their own pockets, or have their state support cut, of course.

No. It’s not been ‘debunked’. It’s factual and can be verified any time on the what benefits can I get (or what am I entitled to) website. As pp told you. Stop making stuff up.

No, it’s not so vanilla.

You can face increased tax on the way out according to the whims of the govt on the day, or suffer a limitation on the amount you can withdraw, or be compelled to face poor annuity rates etc.

The debunk.

https://benefitsinthefuture.com/lies-damned-lies-and-the-telegraph/

As to your final paragraph, it’s the left who believe in the magic money tree. All is well in their world, until they are forced to put their hand in their own pockets, or have their state support cut, of course

Kindly, I suggest you go and research a little before posting stuff like this and embarrassing yourself.

Let all the pubs shut then and the empty buildings can become charity shop hypermarkets to join the rest of the charity shops on our high streets. Until even the charity shops shut down which, unbelievably is beginning to happen. When even people given free stuff to sell run by largely unpaid staff can't make it work you know you have giant problems.

Ahh the socialist utopia!

Here you go blossom take a look. You’ll find that it’s true. If you do your research.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/benefits-entitlements/benefits-calculator/

I don’t need to. All the work has been done for me in the link I posted. 🤷‍♀️

I don’t think she is tbf

Absolutely this.

I've never before in my fifty years had so many people feel the same as me. Such utter malaise. Total dejection. Labour DOES NOT care about it's people. It has agendas, not policies, agendas that are destroying the country piece by piece and you're blind if you can't see it or you're one of the privileged few that aren't on their easy picking radar.

I absolutely Starmer and his vile bullying cabinet. Never have I hated a PM more. Everything about him makes my skin crawl.

Equally kindly, may I recommend that you think before you post - to spare your blushes.

Ps. Let me know if you need any cut ‘n paste articles from the FT, Bloomberg or the DT - afraid I don’t take the Guardian, but then I understand its gratis?

I think your article literally shows very high levels of benefits are indeed possible and they haven't even included 80% childcare refunds for childcare costs which will push income up many thousands more - and people not on benefits have to pay.

It has been fun!