To not get the visceral levels of hatred people have for Keir Starmer

[LastChristmasigaveyousomesocks]

I’m not suggesting he’s the greatest prime minister ever. I’m not even suggesting he’s good at all. But some people really, really passionately hate him.

He is a bit insipid and doesn’t have much charisma but overall he seems like a decent enough bloke who perhaps lacks the political skill and acumen he needs. He’s out of his depth basically.

But that’s not a reason to actually despise someone is it?

When did we get to a point where we can’t just disagree without painting the other person as the devil incarnate?

The Pisa tests show that "Wealth" is the biggest predictor for educational success, not Gove's reforms & UK children feel less safe and suffer more bullying than OECD average.

UK children have worsening attitudes to reading...

The poorest children have also been hit the hardest by Austerity

There is more to education than Maths or English and its not as if we are outstanding, only marginally above OECD average.

All my children were in state grammar during the last Tory government and achieved fabulous results

You are in cloud cuckoo land. Look at the world ranking figures in English and maths. One of the highest rankings in western countries. English and maths being vital for employment prospects.

We have not had "austerity" since WW2.

Oh and "wealth" being the factor in success academically? Check out the demographic in Katharine Birbalsingh's school.

Education here still isn't perfect. You get people who can't pass maths GCSE and the culture here is "oh it's okay grades don't matter".

40% of people can't pass maths GCSE, many can't even read. This isn't good. I don't blame the teachers, I blame parents for not pushing their child and having the "just be happy" attitude.

I think the 9-1 reform was good. Eldest was the first year they had it for maths and English only. Smashed a 9 in maths.

Younger DC then received a splattering of 9s with the occasional 8 or 7. I think grammar schools really worked well here. We needed more of them.

Agreed. But BP doesnt want any child to raise it's head above the state-accepted standard of achievement.

And look at Brampton Manor as well

Regarding education I actually thought Sunak's reform to the education system, maths will 18 and the "Advanced British Standard" would have been a good thing. Shame it never materialised.

We have not had "austerity" since WW2.

OK, you’ve just jumped the shark. I think we can confidently disregard anything you say now in terms of factual accuracy.

40% of people can't pass maths GCSE, many can't even read. This isn't good. I don't blame the teachers, I blame parents for not pushing their child and having the "just be happy" attitude

not all of those children not passing GCSE maths have parents that dont push and want them to ‘just be happy’…

there should be basic ‘business’ maths exam that is aimed at all children with the option of higher maths being offered to more able children

I remember in primary there were broadly 2 groups. Parents who academically pushed their kids to achieve the best and to go to a grammar school and those who "didn't want to stress their kids out" and let them waste evenings playing COD. Even here I see a whole thread of "primary school children shouldn't do homework."

Oh come on. Don't be ridiculous. We had a bit less spent on our unbelievably large, generous and unsustainable state. Thats not "austerity". We didnt have rationing...."poverty" as a world wide definition doesn't exist particularly here. The poverty we have is poverty relative to other people living in the UK.

The New Labour government had massively increased the size and the dependency of the state.

I guess maybe Reform supporters hate him? I don't really see him as horrendous. It is just that this government were expected to wave a magic wand and fix everything that came before.
He seems a decent enough person but maybe almost like he's not flashy enough or doesn't have a big enough ego to seem 'sexy' as a politician? But I can't think of anything less sexy than Farage or Trump.

As I said before. I massively disagree with Keir and the Labour party in general. He's ok-ish on the global stage and dealing with trump.

Big issue with immigration (legal and illegal). No party will stop the boats until we seriously look at leaving international treaties that force us to keep them here and politically that's too difficult.

I doubt it’s just that given the polling and people moving to the Greens not just to Reform.

He only has 11% approval so that means it’s a minority who think he’s great.

And yet...

Yeah I've never heard anyone saying they think he's great. Maybe some of the people in his constituency? I'm just thinking Reform type voters would have more reason or perceived reason to hate him than Greens. But it seems nobodys keen.

I guess people in Labour even want Andy Burnham or anyone else because they're pissed off their leader is so unpopular and it's damaging their brand.

Yep it’s not just coming from the right it’s the left too. Hence Andy Burnham getting support in his own party.

Starmer might survive but the Gorton & Denton result could prove another issue and May elections.

Absolutely.

There are a number of assassins biding their time - Streeting, Rayner and co.
One wonders how the Starmerites will attempt to spin things once their King is finally deposed (in May, if not sooner).

Must confess, there will be the sound of corks popping at our house, when the human ring-binder is finally carried out.

I know. Even when Boris was found to be a lying hypocrite he didn’t get anything like Keir.

As previous posters have said, it’s a mixture of people generally being nasty now, and the power of the media.

I dont understand it at all.

Can't you debate without the insults? its every post, to most posters.... its not showing you in a positive light.

Esp as i agreed Pisa test showed improvement....

Pisa put UK 11th to 14th in key subjects and you've not produced a shred of evidence that Gove helped achieve this, nor shown any that BP wants to lower standards either..... a somewhat ridiculous claim.

On Grammar, Labour aren't planning to get rid of these

You do realise that Starmer being deposed won't result in a general election? Don't believe what Farage tells you about an early GE. That is very much wishful thinking on his part.

I've often seen you being a little intemperate jn your language on here. Along with many of your brethren. But I take your point. I shouldn't have mentioned cuckoos.

Do you think this proves something?