To think men should be more self aware when walking behind women?

[greengreyblue]

Was walking this evening with my dog after dark I became aware of someone walking fairly close behind me. I turned and saw a tall man with hood up ( yes it’s January) and it felt too close given there was nobody else around.
This has happened a few times to me and my DD who works in London says it’s a daily thing when commuting , to find some bloke far too close on a tube platform for example.
I was telling DH and he said he always tries to cross over if he’s behind a woman like that to alleviate any discomfort that might cause.
I only have daughters but do you think your menfolk are aware of how they can make women feel? As a mother of boys would you teach them about this? Obviously men are 50% of the population and mostly not predators but I always feel uncomfortable in these situations. AIBU?

Yes. There is a man who gets the same train as me some mornings. It's at 6am. He is about 6ft 7 and wears huge stompy work boots (I mean obviously nothing wrong with that in itself!). He absolutely marches along head down, hood up in a way I can only describe as like something out of a horror movie. I'm fairly unflappable but it sent shivers down my spine the first time I heard him behind me/pass me. Until I saw his little sandwiches in his hand 😂 I now know he just always seems to worry about being late for the train 😆 Bit baffled by his lack of awareness, though-he gets really close to me when passing despite there clearly being quite a bit of space at 6am.

I'm a mum to two sons (now 16 and 18) and it hadn't originally crossed my mind to teach them this.

Was walking our dog with youngest last year though (he was 15), and a man in a hoodie suddenly ran along the road, crossed to our side, came up behind us in the dark and stayed about a house length back - pausing every time our dog stopped to pee or sniff something. DS was absolutely oblivious to how nervous I was and kept chatting about his Minecraft world while I had my key ready in my pocket.

I talked to him when we got home and he was gobsmacked that it felt scary for me, and that I (and all women) need to be aware of surroundings all the time. We roped his brother into the conversation and he is now aware too.

They both regularly go out on dusk to the gym or whatever, and are now thoughtful about who else is around so they can keep their distance and keep themselves and others feeling safer.

Phone snatching is an issue, but sometimes it’s necessary to use your phone as well.

It’s a false security to think being ‘aware of your surroundings’ as a woman can help, if someone has ill intent it’s not necessarily possible to prevent them and worse it perpetuates victim blaming.

The person speaking is not necessarily reassuring, some psychopaths operate by seeming friendly and harmless.

It’s reassuring of becoming more aware of not seeming to follow and teaching their DS.

Everyone should feel safe and be free to use their phone when they want to.

A school child in uniform shouldn’t have to be wary of thinking an adult on the street is a threat.

The blame lies 100% with perpetrators not the person peacefully going about their day.

Some dodgy bastards who do this are on a power trip, I think. The scaring is the thrill.

I do appreciate it when men hold back. I was walking up a busy high street not long ago in the dark, then I had to leave it to go up some cobbled steps that were basically a dark alley way. I noticed that these lads who weren't too far behind me were going the same way but they held back and waited till I was through the dark alley bit to go through themselves.

Actually I'm glad this thread came up as my teenager is pretty tall now. He's not often out when it's dark but it's worth pointing this out to him. We were walking through a car park the other day and I without realising had my keys held in that defensive way and my son asked why I was holding my keys like that so I did briefly explain.

Yes, my son knows to not walk close to women and cross over if possible.

Most grown women wouldn’t stand a chance against a 15yr old boy. If you doubt that ask any mother with sons, or try wrestling one yourself. It doesn’t make women feeble but women are “weaker” when it comes to being over powered by men. Pretending facts aren’t true is naive at best. I know few women or teen girls who haven’t been sexually harassed in one way or another, which I guess is an additional inconvenient fact. It is not unreasonable for men to be aware of the fight or flight response following women in the dark triggers. If men weren’t assaulting women at astonishing rates maybe it wouldn’t be something we have to consider but while they are responses like this are ridiculous.

"policing" 😄

Many people manage without a hood. Less threatening headgear is widely available.

They're the uniform for shoplifters and druggies unfortunately, men who wish to remain anonymous on CCTV, so innocent people choosing to wear them will be lumped in I'm afraid.

We are. That's how we know men are walking behind us.

@Linguist1979

I was walking out of my house on a remote tow path and I saw a man stood on a path on the left.

I'd feel vulnerable living on a remote towpath full stop. This sounds terrifying!

The average 12 year old boy is stronger than the average fully grown woman.

The average man has a punch power of 180% that of the average woman.

By all means, take up self defence, but a woman can't assume, even in that case, that she will be able to protect herself.

DH is tall and walks very fast. If he unavoidably has to overtake someone on a path where there is nowhere to cross over to he loudly and breezily says “Just passing on your left/right!”. Then he’s off, vanishing quickly into the distance. He taught DS how to reduce any perceived threat as a male stranger too.

Totally agree.

I (a man) was out on a walk in the countryside this morning and at one point was on a path going along the edge of a field. About 20-30 yards ahead was a woman with her dog. I didn't want to get too close to her and scare her but that meant that every time she slowed or stopped because her dog was poking around in the hedgerow, I had to slow/stop myself. Which also looks suspicious.

Genuine question - what should I have done?

It feels much less scary during the day, and I for one feel much safer with my dogs.. in that situation which I’m in a lot I would probably say maintain your pace and throw a cheery “good morning” out as you get closer if she turns towards you or as you go past. I can guarantee she’ll have clocked you and will likely make eye contact as you pass… It’s lovely that you’re aware enough to care! 🙏

Thanks for the tip. If the path had been wide enough then I'd have probably gone as far to the side as possible and nipped past but it was a narrow path with a hedgerow on one side and crops on the other. So I chose to hang back. When I was waiting I did try pulling out the route map for the walk I was following and pretending to look around as if I was trying to get my bearings, but then I realised that by the third time I did that I was making myself look even more weird...

I'm not a small man so I know that can make me appear scary. But I hate to think that I've unwittingly made someone feel scared.

I think carry on as you are and don’t stop and slow with her as that is way more scary. Be friendly looking and don’t be in a hoodie. You can’t always cross.

Sigh. We are. That's the whole point of the thread. We are aware of our surroundings and so are aware if a man is behind us. No 'awareness' tells us if the man is safe, so we may worry, feel we need to change direction or run. Decent men can help us by showing us they are safe, so we don't need to do those things. Do you think a decent man would prioritise his freedom to walk close behind us 'if he liked' over showing us we had nothing to fear from him?

It’s so nice that you were aware and tried! It’s so sad that other men have essentially made women afraid and put you in that position 😢 If it had been me and you’d just given up and said I’m so sorry I’m trying to not be intimidating but realise I look even weirder now, I’d have laughed, humour a good technique! I will say dog walking, especially in the countryside I expect, and am used to all sorts of people walking alone and in the same direction or towards me… Always have keys or a torch with hard edges to hand and dogs are a good safety net… Even if they might go for belly rubs vs attack I assume no one knows that!! 😂

I was in a simular situation. The man behind me called "Alright love, I'm just going to speed up and pass you"

Really reassuring there are so many thoughtful men and mothers out there. Thank you, it matters.

Lack of awareness, I have had this when I walk my dog, she is a big dog and starts going mad if it’s dark and someone is to close
to me especially if they have a hood on so they then cross the road but it can be annoying trying to hold her back because she clearly keeps turning around to look at them before they get close

YANBU.

If I'm walking up behind a woman and I don't think she hears me, I cough so that she knows I'm behind (I'm a woman). I'm always checking behind me when I'm walking somewhere a bit more remote and get quite freaked out when I find a man is there without me knowing.

Of course men (and women) should be aware of personal space and etiquette, especially at night. And most are, in my experience. Being followed and having that adrenaline surge and the shaky knees, the ringing in the ears, the pounding in your eyes and the relief and embarrassment when the perceived threat has passed is something we have all experienced and it’s awful.

So yes, it’s always appreciated when men have the presence of mind to keep their distance.

But if you go outside in a public place, you consent to the possibility of seeing other people - and some of those people may be men. They may be behind you and they might even be wearing a hood!

There is so much mixed messaging. One minute we have “this girl can!” teaching girls that they can be and do anything they want without fear or making themselves smaller. Then we have others announcing that teenage boys shouldn’t wear a hoodie because a grown woman might be scared if they see him.

Just yesterday there were smarmy posts on here about how a woman would be far more likely to be attacked by a man she knows than a stranger, when the OP was wanting her employee to get a tax to work in the middle of a dangerous industrial estate.

And the cries earlier in this thread that the girl distracted by her phone actually wasn’t distracted at all but was engaged in a tactical plan to keep herself safe are ridiculous - we’ve all been distracted by our phones at some point.

And then men are dodgy if they slow down and don’t overtake. But also men are dodgy if speed up to try and overtake. And if they maintain their pace to try and not alarm the woman in front? Yep, that’s intimidating too.

I don’t think anyone - man or woman - is generally walking three paces behind others when outside at any time. People naturally hang back. But there’s no reason a woman can’t cross the road herself if it would make her feel safer. No one else should be expected to be able to read her mind.