AIBU to not have sister and her autistic child (nephew) in my home.

[BetUWanna]

Hi all,

I'll try and give as much detail here with trying to remain anonymous. I've NC for this as this will have outing details in it. I'm here to ask for some genuine advice and opinions on a current situation with my family. I'll try not to drip feed so this may be long.

i (30F) have an older sister aged 33. She is my half sister with us sharing 1 parent.
she has 2 children, 5 and 11, one who is autistic (diagnosed) and the other is NT. I also have a 4 year old myself.
She was young when she had her son who was diagnosed autistic when he was 8. I want to preface that she is a single mum, with both kids having different dads, so I'm not saying for a second that this is easy for her at all. I genuinely love her with my whole heart, but our relationship is suffering hugely due to her son's behaviour. She came to stay for Christmas at my home for 5 days. Some of the instances that happened over Christmas:
We were playing board games in the lounge, my nephew said he was going to watch his iPad. I had a Christmas tree at the top of my stairs, and while we were playing games he picked off each bauble individually and threw each one down stairs and most of them smashed to pieces. There was glass everywhere and there were little children who could have hurt themselves.
he picked up one of the pillows on the bed he was sleeping on, took it to the bathroom and peed on it. Left it there for me to find it. He ate his Christmas dinner with his bare hands, slapping gravy over his face and genuinely making a mess. He picked up a glass, launched it across my kitchen which ultimately chipped my wall and smashed. He refuses to use any sort of cutlery whatsoever. He refuses to brush his teeth, to the point he has black, rotted teeth at the front of his mouth. He's apparently been to the dentist and it's 'fine.' He hits, kicks and pushes my sister and the younger children including his younger sibling. I'm worried about my niece who has to live with this and the effects this is having on her. I have offered countless times for her to sleepover at mine with my DD, but it's declined each time.
He scribbled over my walls and regularly went outside to pee in my garden.

He is incredibly intelligent and my sister says he is high functioning, but i don't know if this is accurate. He is home educated and goes to his dad's house every other weekend. My sisters house is clean, he doesnt wreck things in his house, but if someone comes over his house he will start to lash out and misbehave. He will call us names and tell us he hates us.
I am worried for my sister as he is aged 11 and the same height as me, she cannot control or restrain him at all as he is just too strong. She has had training / classes for this but he is too strong. There is no respite for her. My relationship, and the whole families, is suffering now. We don't want to go to her house because he will lash out, mainly at her. We don't want him at our houses, because he trashes the place and can, at times, cause danger to other family members. What is the answer? My sister works hard home educating her children, and works part time when they are at their dads.

I can see this whole situation is isolating her from the outside world as she lives in fear of her son. I want to offer support, but aside from being a listening ear, I don't know what else I can do. I unfortunately won't allow him in my home now, as I have to keep my DD safe and I will not allow her safe space to be compromised. Which means my sister and niece don't come over, as they are always together.

can anybody please advise me on how / what I can do? Will this ever get better? She won't call out his behaviour as she is too frightened of him, which I understand. But it's straining our relationship hugely.

my relationship with my sister is hanging on by a thread. She has other friends and family members but they all seem to be in the same position as us which is isolating her further and resulting in her losing friendships. I am heartbroken for her. Please can anybody share any words of wisdom or any advice. My parents are in the same situation as me, they cannot cope with his behaviour in their home and their house has also been trashed over the years.

ultimately this is a disabled child who is being gloriously let down by the system.

thank you.

@liamharha this is an anonymous open internet forum.
It doesn't matter that you don't think OP shouldn't share any further information.
This isn't your thread.
You don't control OP and she hasn't broken any rules.
@BetUWanna has posted initially for advice, which she has rightly acted upon, and is now getting comfort from it as she has no one to talk to about this IRL - the very essence of Mumsnet.
@liamharha Please. Just. Stop.

Well yes, if she thought getting her niece out of the shitshow that is life with her mother and brother, then why wouldn’t she hope that this would be the outcome?

Her sister isn’t interested in getting help, or even in acknowledging that there’s a problem at all. Her nephew is violent and hostile. OP however, has a relationship and bond with her niece, hence why she’s showing more care for, and prioritizing her.

Social services can move this quickly if a child is believed to be at immediate risk. If her sister is breaking down over the report, and/or the nephew’s violence is escalating, then the timeline is believable.

Because i thought you would be one rule for me and one rule for thee and it didnt take long to prove it

OP, you 100% have done the right thing by that child.
I too agree with other posters who notice that there is a theme on MN that Autistic males are to be accommodated at all costs even if they are making life hell for the family including physically.
I completely disagree with this.
Your niece can be saved and kept safe.
So she should be the priority.
Not her mother, not her brother.

Ignore the nasty bullying posts on MN.
It is a regular sad theme of this site.
Wishing you well.

"theme on MN that Autistic males are to be accommodated at all costs even if they are making life hell for the family"

Except most of the time Mumsnet posts are discussing vulnerable, disabled children. It's not about accommodating autistic people at all costs, it's about making reasonable accommodations which have a reasonable chance of actually improving the situation and not just binning off disabled people or going back to a time they were out if sight, out of mind.

I want to be very clear that violence from autistic people (even children) should never just be tolerated, and sometimes restrictive measures are the only thing that controls the situation. That said, it's not as easy as just "completely disagree[ing]" with violence from autistic children. What does that even mean? Disagreeing with something won't solve it!

Niece could be deemed to be at significant risk from nephew of course, and if so, one of the children has to move out.

This is an autistic 11 year old child we are talking about @Raineys. His emotional age is most likely a few years younger than that. Of course the others family members need to be protected, but I’m not sure what you’re suggesting here? He’s a child in need too. I haven’t heard one person say that autistic males need to be protected ‘at all costs’ on this thread, not one. That’s pp projecting I think.

I agree. The use of the term 'males' is really loaded as well. Of course it's technically accurate and an 11 year old boy's ability to hurt someone is definitely not insignificant, but by using 'males' instead of 'children' it's comparing the situation to violent adults. An 11 year old being violent is not equivalent to a 25 year old, a 19 year old, or even a 15 year old doing the same things. It's not equivalent in the level of understanding/culpability or the amount of force.

Hopefully your nieces dad will tell the social workers you want to involved

Don't feel guilty you did the right thing.

I still feel so shit about it all and as much as it was the right thing to do, I'm riddled with guilt and sadness.

Please don't feel guilt. Guilt is a useless emotion that others put on us to make us feel bad about ourselves, and God knows you've had some of that on this thread!

Certainly you have a right to feel sad, and even some regret that you had to take this necessary step to protect your niece and get help for sis and nephew.

I hope your sister will speak with you, but right now she's in 'fight or flight' mode (or as I think of it 'fight, flight, or freeze') and it may be that she is in 'frozen' mode and just can't deal with talking about what's happening rather than punishing you and the family with her silence.

Keep the lines of communication open with niece's dad's family and let them know you're there for anything they need but don't want to feel you're intruding. I'm sure they'll let you know what's going on

Support your Sister from a distance by which I mean call her regularly & be there when she needs to vent. See her when her Son is at his Dads either at her house or yours or go out for the day with hers & your DD. Suggest to her that she speaks with Social Services who can assign her a Social Worker. They will be able to offer professional support & suggest things for her & may also be able to offer respite care options so your Sister can have a bit of time to her self now & then.

Let me clarify for you.
I disagree with an autistic person, especially a strong male, be it a child or a young adults violence or aggression, being tolerated.

In such circumstances, where other children and parents are being hurt, the home setting is no longer working.
Other options have to be considered, including residential.
I make no apology for that.
Violence in the home is completely unacceptable, and being autistic doesn't absolve you of this fact.
Others in the home are entitled to a life without violence, even if it is the result of a mental disability.
If parents do not agree with this, then their other children should be removed from the home for their own safety and well-being.

The OP's niece comes ahead of her mother and brother's well-being.

You clearly have no experience of these families, you're just stating random opinions about something you have obviously not experienced.

Hahaha, residential! Yeah right, good luck campaigning for Local Authorities to fund that for every autistic or learning disabled child who exhibits violent challenging behaviour- you fancy coughing up at least £100k for each child in this situation (and it's not exactly uncommon).

Try to actually reflect on what you'd think if your own precious, and beloved, child God forbid sustained a traumatic brain injury and started exhibiting violent behavior (can happen), would you pack them off to a residential school?

This niece clearly does need to be protected, and maybe it really is at the level where removal is necessary but removal is deeply traumatic for children and so lots of other avenues should be tried.

I wish I could do this but she makes it seemingly impossible sometimes. Right now I along with my family are currently blocked via phone and WhatsApp / text message. This can be for days, weeks and sometimes months at a time.
The kids usually go to their dads every other weekend. This weekend my sister works. They are long shifts. I have supported her financially considerably and offered to help her so she doesn't need to work a cash in hand job but she absolutely won't give up the cash job.

Sadly there's no other time to see her. As she has my nephew every other time and my nephew is currently extremely violent when anybody comes to their house, or even speaks on the phone. Or when the buzzer rings in their flat.

She will probably unblock me when she needs financial support. I will have to withdraw financial support as I'm not being used / spoken to just when she wants something.

I don't know what's going on with her as I haven't spoken to her in a while. I'm incredibly worried about her but sadly there's only so much I can do.

I do have savings accounts for my niece and nephew as well as my DD. I don't make monthly payments into it like I do my DD but I think I'm going to withdraw financial support now and put it in the kids savings accounts instead.

Forgive me for saying this, but you seem a bit all over the place at the moment OP, understandably. This morning you said

I am going to try and contact my sister though as I'm incredibly worried about her. There is still a vulnerable single mum in this as well as 2 vulnerable children.

Now it seems you’re going to wait until she comes to you and withdraw the financial support you’re currently giving her if I understand you correctly?

I think at this stage it might be as well to sit with things for a few days and try to decompress a little? You are extremely stressed and lurching from one thing to another right now. You need time to sit with things.

I think home schooling was a mistake, at least school might give some boundaries and discipline. I wouldn't have him in my house again. His mum needs to get some advice on how to handle him if she can't.

Things have moved on massively. Please read all of the OPs comments even if you don’t have time to read the whole thread.

I do feel all over this place you're right. I don't know what's right from left and I don't know what the best thing to do is. This is all new territory for me and I cannot seem to think straight.

im all over the place, so sorry if it's confusing for anyone. I have absolutely no one to talk to about this and I'm a bit of a mess to be honest.

You owe no one an apology. You’ve done an incredibly brave and scary thing. Be gentle on yourself.

As sad as it might be for your sister, the children need protecting. You did the right thing.

Take some time for yourself, @BetUWanna, you've had a traumatic experience, on top of all the stress and worry for your niece and nephew, and your sister.
You made the best decision you could, deciding to involve SS, especially after finding out that your sister has been lying about just how bad things had become in their home.
Take care of yourself 💐

I thought the same thing.

There's other threads with people complaining that too much is already spent on SEND children. Imagine if every other SEND child had to be shipped off to residential placements?

Not to mention the lack of residential placements.

Ive read every comment of yours @BetUWanna and lots of others on the thread too.
I think you have been amazing and have done exactly the right thing.
Sometimes you can’t save everyone - and so you have to save the person you can.
Your niece is little, extremely vulnerable and scared.
Frankly she’s being abused.
She is being forced to share a bedroom with a boy who has violent behaviour who abuses her in front of her mother.
She has no school, no healthcare, no dentist, and must be living in constant fear.
She has leaned that girls don’t get what they want if a boy says no.

Going to Social Services was the BEST THING you could do for your niece.
I hope her father gets full custody and that she comes to you for some weekends and holidays and that she sees your parents too.

The support, financial and emotional you have given your sister and nephew is above and beyond. Do not berate yourself for choosing your niece’s safety over your relationship with them.

I read something on here which has stuck with me and it applies very well here
”You can’t be a lifeboat for someone who keeps jumping out”.
Your sister kept jumping out and dragging your poor niece with her.

Im sending you virtual flowers, 🌹 chocolates 🍫 and hugs 🤗 because you deserve them.

😭😭😭😭😭😭

Thank you, just thank you. ❤️

She has leaned that girls don’t get what they want if a boy says no.

She has also learnt that she mustnt say no to him..............say no to a male