'Taxes are the price we pay for a civilised society'

[Bargepole45]

Having just paid an enormous tax bill, I frankly am fed up with hearing this. There are lots of civilised countries that have a far lower tax burden than the UK. It's just a form of blackmail designed to make contributors believe that there is no other way other than to pay sky high taxes to subsidise people's crap life choices.

Have too many kids and can't afford them? No problem, the state steps in. Have a terrible lifestyle and don't look after your health at all? No problem, the NHS will treat you. Spent all your money with wild abandon and have nothing left to pay for your care when you get old? Don't fret, the state will fund the same care home as someone that has saved all their life.

Don't people understand that these 'safety nets' just facilitate reckless behaviour? We can have a civilised society where people aren't cushioned from all of their bad decision making. I say this as someone from a background where I didn't have much money and I am so fed up with people pretending that poor people don't know that an apple is healthier than a chocolate bar or that it's a good idea to actually attend school. It's insulting and disempowering to keep making excuses for people that simply aren't incentivised to make different, better choices.

You don't think 1.2 million is loads?

And they're all receiving benefits, there's this thing literally called child benefit which every parent or guardian of a child under 16 or 20 if in education receives tax free money for up to 2 children which from April 2026 changes to every child.

And for those receiving UC which is a benefit claimed by according to the government, claimed by 8 million households, over half of those are households with children the 2 child cap benefit cap is removed from April 2026 so it's not just families with 2 plus children receiving more child benefit, they will now be receiving more UC.

It adds up.

Millions IS loads.

however, if you are dissatisfied with the current system it seems reasonable that you have considered alternatives ..which are?
I have lived in four other countries: three with a higher tax burden than the uk and one with lower. The higher taxed area had excellent healthcare, infrastructure and decent education, the lower one had no safety net. Personally I prefer higher tax and a safety net.

A working family means one parent working 16 hours at the National Living Wage. Is this really what most of us would consider a working family? You could have families with two parents and all they can muster is 16 hours between them?

Also if you have anyone with a disability then the cap is automatically lifted. 40% of families that would be impacted by the two child cap have a disabled person in the household and therefore would be exempt from the benefit cap. Again, do we really think it's normal that 40% of families have a disabled person in them? Does this not ring alarm bells with anyone?

Of course it is worth it.

No you'd have different stresses from a lack of money.

It is. Universal credit for a single person is £400 a month.

Jeez still trotting out the 16 hours thing that was out of date 10 years ago? UC goes by wage and you certainly have to work more than 16 hours.

Disability bashing started already as well.

I have lived with a lack of money. I understand relative poverty. It is not always more stressful than working.

The far right have always wanted a low tax low public services economy; Boris Johnson even wrote a book about it, or at least a good part of one, if I
remember correctly.

Many of the people, probably most, who support this would be screaming outrage once the bills started to come in, for health care and the rest.

It’s a terrible idea. I believe tax should be paid fairly, though, and according to means.

I suspect you haven't experienced proper poverty if you think that.

Personally I found it crap for the very brief period I was on Job seekers allowance for 3 months in the 00s, one of the worst aspects is the judgement and belittlement.

What poor and reckless decisions did the children make that make you think it’s better that they live in homes with less money in, thereby directly impacting their childhoods and life chances?

(I’m a top 5% earner and have no children, for context)

I was referencing the benefit cap. It is 16 hours National Living Wage.

15% is not loads

Plenty of families have to pay child benefit back including my family…

I am looking at the ME actually. Lots of people like me are

Great. So go.

Oh and before you assume I'm skint.... nope. DH and I earn loads and pay tons of tax.

But I appreciate what our nation gets for it. My neighbours daughter's special school place. My own daughters terrifically expensive medical care (two stints of intensive care, a heart procedure and long term expensive medication for a chronic condition. Free good quality schooling. I love living in the UK.

I would add, I didn't have children, was very young and the politics aroundit wasn't as bad then with the reactionary right. Equally, ultimately I had the safety net of my parents. I feel that it was bad enough under those circumstances so it doesn't appeal to me at all, it would be hard and challenging and humiliating because of the hate now!

Blair/Brown wanted exactly the same!! Brown brought in the 10% basic rate tax band! Blair constantly harped on about the UK being a service economy. It really wasn't just the "Far Right". The only shame is that Brown buggered things up and withdrew the 10% basic rate band. A lot of Brown's plans were actually really quite good, but his implementation was utterly bonkers (i.e. tax credits) meaning he had to constantly flip flop and U turn which negated his good ideas.

Where I live it’s more than that and you have to be actively self harming, not just talking about it. Disgusting!

The main problem in this country is not the few on benefits who don't want to work but the many doing vital jobs like caring for the aged on poverty wages. ( Incidentally a large minority of people on benefits are sanctioned each year for missing a meeting ( no money for bus fares, illness, bad weather etc) leaving them with no income at all for weeks on end.) Hence the need for food banks.

The problem is the few ( eg approx. 35 families in the UK ) who own as much as the many, the poorest 27 million of the population AND are tax avoidant. It is too easy to off shore monies, dividends/wealth etc which should be taxed at least the same as income from working.

Indeed it's about time we taxed fairly the companies like Amazon who are making billions of £s profits while paying poverty wages to the people who make the money for them.

Children will always live in unequal households. They will all have different levels of opportunity, money and even love. The state can't equal all of this out even if we devoted all our welfare budget to this.

If a parent is choosing to have more children than they can afford knowing that the children will grow up in poverty then do you think these parents are the type to prioritise their children? My mum made conscious and difficult choice to have less children because she couldn't afford anymore. A parent that keeps having children despite this just isn't a good parent and money is likely to be the least of the children's problems.

There really aren’t lots of people having babies for benefits.

I was actually talking to a “Modeller” last week. He was saying that the problem is that the “taking” part of society is burgeoning and this is not good news. The middle class - from which most tax is raised - is shrinking.

Supporting a swelling group of people reliant on the state is unsupportable - even if you impose 100% inheritance tax and confiscate wealth you eventually run dry.

In 20-30 years the despised boomers will be dead, but of course they will be replaced by others needing NHS care and drawing pensions, and the boomers’ wealth will have been swallowed up.

“Scandinavia!” cry people. Well, the Scandinavian model has worked up till now because of the strong social contract. This is starting to flounder, particularly in Sweden.

That figure has been totally debunked.

That’s exactly where it comes from, what an odd statement.

This in spades! Like the argument that we must give weak sentences to prisoners who come from poverty as they know no better. Everyone knows what’s healthy food. Everyone knows good from bad. Everyone knows you should work hard at school to get a good job or deal with the consequences. Poor people are no different. Those who think poor people don’t understand these things have zero understanding of poverty! So condescending.