Elder daughter father giving rules about my younger kids

[Dazedandconfusec]

My elder daughter is 12 and Grade 5 piano and flute and began guitar in an afterschool club at school last year. She gave up violin when the teacher moved house but still has two violins which she occasionally gets out.

My ex has facilitated her music and has bought all of the instruments and paid for lessons but I obviously had to facilitate the lessons for flute; the piano teacher comes to the house.

My younger daughter elder daughter’s half sister, has now started piano at school. Elder daughter has locked piano as her dad has instructed that my younger children cannot use the piano or have use of the other instruments.

Just curious, do you play?

Did you read the music teachers' comments that absolutely the way to go to get a keyboard with weighted keys for the younger ones until they earn the right to play a beautiful instrument?

I'm team beautiful instrument - it belongs to the elder daughter, her choice and she may have needed her Dad's help to defend that choice. And a good keyboard with weighted keys, headphones etc is a superb way to fast track independent learning when starting. Plus something to look forward to, stepping up to a real piano a few grades/years in. If you start on a beautiful grand, most other Pianos are going to be a disappointment in future - where is the incentive in that?!

He gets to control what lives in his house. - and he also facilitates the lessons. You always hear about split families that what the other parent does I their time is at their discretion and you have no role in that - but they cannot control what happens in your house either.

so either piano is unlocked, or it moves to Dad’s house and he facilitates the lessons. And the practise.

Has your daughter moaned about the others using her instruments?

Its not just weighted keys though, its the touch sensitive keys that keyboards dont have. A digital piano does this, and these days are light and portable. When I learnt I went to one teacher first but the exceptional teacher I wanted to go to would not accept students without a piano to practice on (digital piano, not electric, was fine).

Yes, he could be worried about the piano being used properly. Who pays for it to be tuned. Will it need more than a once a year tune with your children playing it. If he isn't controlling or abusive he could have genuine concerns that a conversation could fix.
In the end though it is your house, your rules so maybe him having the piano at his house may be an option.

What will be interesting is if the youngest starts lessons as well will the middle child have to share with her sibling or will he get his own piano as well . Why should middle child have to share if the oldest doesn’t have to ?

When it is parked in a communal room of someone else’s home then it becomes a free for all.

Could this piano be moved to your DD’s bedroom? Hire piano movers to move it. It might be tight but if she is insisting no one can play on this piano other than her then it needs to go in her space not the communal space.

Equally I would be moving all instruments out of the communal spaces and into the room of the owners to set boundaries

Your eldest dd is being influenced by her father and on the verge of doing things that could have a lasting impact on her life.

I think whilst your ex really believes he loves his dd but take away the control and division he likes to have over you and her and what is left.
She is too young and too close to the situation to see him for what he is. She still thinks he bought the baby grand for her as a gesture of kindness.
He waited till she probably told him about her helping siblings play the thing and you starting lessons for her sibling and then slammed the lid down on the thing so it would cause conflict in your family

I would think about all the things he does for his dd that look nice on the surface and what they mean for the rest of the family

I think when you analyse all these things you will see a pattern of sowing division in your family and him still trying to control what goes on in your life and family.
I think the baby grand is just one of a long list of “nice” things he has done that result in division in your family and control over you and eldest dd.

Maybe they'll have a piano room gonig forward, TBH I'd love a piano room. I've been eyeing up a digital baby grand for years so maybe I'll just fill up my lounge with them! Its bonkers IMO 🤷‍♀️

See what you mean.

Although my DD only had our old electric organ to practice at home on for first couple of grades, then a 100 year old brute (but much loved) upright which should have been given up grade 3 but got her to Grade 7, finally decent piano grade 8. I did regret we couldn't have got her a decent one sooner. She was never destined be a concert pianist, but she can make nearly any piano sing and beyond excited to finally get a good piano.

Sometimes

Sorry, my post above totally not point of thread, just musing on a pp's reply. Ignore my ramblings 😊! Thx

I would be also telling dd that if she insists on things being very much her sole private ownership

That this works both ways.
When she visits her father she doesn’t mention anyone else or anything to do with her life at home. You don’t want yours or your dh or her siblings name mentioned to him. As he didn’t want you to move or have more children it is kinder to him to not mention these things to him.

You need to cut the control by starving him of the oxygen of news about your family.
Equally I would be asking your dd not to post anything about you all on SM.

OP’s husband’s proposed solution was to get another piano, so apparently they do have the space.

Op’s daughter doesn’t want to share the piano, and it seems that she went to her father because he could tell her mother what she couldn’t. Removing the piano means that her daughter would choose to spend more time with her father/at her father’s house, which Op is categorically unwilling to have happen.

Trying to force her to share her father’s/her piano won’t make her want to share, or feel anything other than resentment towards her mother and siblings. There’s no solution that doesn’t risk damage to the relationships between them all. Op’s eldest daughter is the only one of her children that has a wealthy parent, and as such she is always going to have more than her siblings. There’s no getting around that fact.

Anyway, Op already decided to get a keyboard for her younger children and leave the piano alone.

This is crazy. A 12 year old grad 5 pupil does not need a brilliant piano. A decent fb marketplace one for free would do, for the kids to share. My three learn, ages 11-6 though ‘only’ grade 4 for the eldest and the piano we have is fine. It was free secondhand, survived a building project where it was utterly freezing and dripped on.
A ‘good’ piano is going to divide your children.

If the DD doesn’t want to share, she’s being rather mean, isn’t she?

Trying to force her to share her father’s/her piano won’t make her want to share, or feel anything other than resentment towards her mother and siblings

Why do you think this? I find it quite a defeatist attitude. It sounds like you think it’s a hopeless task to instil some thought and care for her siblings into the elder DD. Why?

People can change at any age, and a child of this age in particular is at a point in time where change can happen relatively quickly and easily. I wouldn’t give her up as a lost cause.

Removing the piano means that her daughter would choose to spend more time with her father/at her father’s house

We don’t know this for sure, it’s a fear of the OP’s. How much justification there is for that fear is unclear (would the daughter really flounce over this?), but what is clear is the OP is being manipulated into a situation that is damaging the family dynamics because she’s being controlled by this fear. Who put that fear there? . Probably the ex, deliberately, with the elder daughter being damaged in the process.

There’s no solution that doesn’t risk damage to the relationships between them all.

This is the nub of it, and this situation is being created by the ex. Most likely very deliberately.

If OP wants to be a decent parent to her kids, she needs to make sure elder DD doesn’t develop into a spoilt brat with a superior attitude to her siblings, and the younger siblings don’t grow up resentful and feeling inferior.

Irrelevant and no need to be verbally aggressive

Its hers, its her belonging. If she moved out for any reason no doubt it would go with her no?

So its not a shared thing. Its unfortunate its so big but then OP agreed at the time to house it.

This!!! You can't exactly have 2 pianos in a house... waste of space and expensive.

Well DD can take it with her thats not the issue beibg discussed. OP didn't agree to not allow others to touch it, where was that said?

You dont have to agree with me, we're all allowed our own opinions. My post is no more aggressive than yours, "no"?!

No, she’s not ‘mean’.

It’s not defeatist, it’s realistic. Trying to force your will onto someone, even when you unequivocally can (and OP cannot), rarely results in them coming around to your way of thinking. The daughter is a person in her own right that has her own perspective and opinions, and they don’t have to be the same as Op’s. Op can influence her, but she cannot force her to think or feel as she may want her to.

Op actually knows the people involved here and what is likely to happen, so I doubt her fears regarding her daughter voting with her feet are unfounded ones. Of course she can ‘flounce’ and choose to spend more time with her father/at her father’s house. At 12 she is not without autonomy, or options she will be very aware of.

Op has said her daughter doesn’t want to share, and she hopes that in a couple of years that she’ll be ‘less precious’ about the piano. Clearly she believes this is not actually driven by her ex, but that her daughter has gone to her father for support.

Yes, I do play and I have musical siblings, some of whom play professionally.

I disagree. It IS mean. Why do you think it isn’t?

And why do you think it’s ‘realistic’ that a parent would have no hope of instilling decent values into their child? Do you just let your kids bimble on uncorrected if you see them going astray? Most parents don’t, they see it as a fundamental part of parenting to guide their kids into being a decent person, instilling values and morals.

I've just realised you posted the first post about age and ability and care, so essentially saying same thing as each other, apologies.

That’s fine. I don’t need you to agree with me. Personally, I think it’s fine to respect other people’s belongings, and their autonomy. I also don’t think that children, particularly girls, should be taught that feeling compelled to say yes when they don’t want to is positive quality or ‘moral value’.

I don’t think a parent has ‘no hope’ of instilling their own values. Of course they do. They cannot however force their child to share those values, or prevent them from being exposed to different ones. Furthermore, a parent coming in with ‘I’m right, you’re wrong, and you’ll do only as I say!’ diktats, especially when it’s something said parent cannot actually enforce, doesn’t teach the lesson you seem to think it will.

Op knows her child. She is the one intimately familiar with the family dynamics, and the one best placed on this thread to judge what the likely outcomes of the suggestions made would be. She’s based her decision on the reality as it is, not the reality that that she, or anyone else, thinks it should be.

@InterIgnis I don’t think anyone on here would disagree that people can have their own belongings and shouldn’t have to share but that most normal people wouldn’t consider that large , usually one item things should be shared ie pianos , trampolines , swing sets . I’d be interested to know if @Dazedandconfusec would insist the piano was shared if all her children were full siblings and the piano had been given as a gift by a godparent / grandparent . I realise that is hypothetical but surely in blended families where the children all share one parent the aim should be they all get treated equally in the home of the shared parent .

Oh man - I’ve just seen that the piano is a baby grand. Seriously? The ex has installed a baby grand piano in someone else’s house?

If it is locked, how will you tune it?

It’s a bit off topic but if the daughter doesn’t want others to play on her piano then what happens to it when she moves out? Even if it is a brilliant piano, almost no one wants a baby grand - it won’t be worth very much at all if it is sold. And good luck getting a baby grand up the stairs to a second floor flat or house share.

If the DD doesn’t want to share, she’s being rather mean, isn’t she?

Thing is, it might be mean.
It could be a response to knowing how things end up if the younger siblings are allowed to use it.
It could be a cry for help that she feels less important than the rest of the family.
It could be that she feels that anything she does her siblings have to do too and just wants one thing she can do - her music - without feeling her feet are being trodden on.

Op is in the best position to find out, and calling her dd mean without knowledge of the situation isn't helpful.

I was called mean for not letting dbro "share" my things. That was because what "share" actually meant was:

1. I either paid for it, or got it as a present (often on that sort of thing more than one present); he was never asked to contribute in any way.
2. He was less careful, and the item would be spoilt; there was never any consequence for him, nor was it ever replaced if totally broken, even on the time he threw it in a temper and smashed it.
3. I would be subjected to comments about how much better he was at using it than me at 3 years younger; even when looking back this wasn't true - and could be measured objectively at the time
4. I would be told that it was "mean" to keep it in my room so he'd have to ask to use it, as it was needed for "both of us" so It would be "suggested" that it was better keeping it downstairs (where his room was) so he didn't have to come upstairs.
5. It would very quickly migrate into his room. If I wanted to use it I'd have to ask Mum to get it, and inevitably the answer would be that he was just about to use it and so I'd have to wait.

So was that mean objecting, or a response to the inevitable happening. I will add that I very rarely bothered objecting; simply gave it up. Any attempts to stop this happening would be met with "oh he just looks up to you so much and wants to do what you do, so it's unfair not to let him".
Many of the things this happened with, I just stopped doing because it wasn't worth trying.