Dads using female communal changing room

[Strawberrryfields]

Not sure how I feel about this so looking for opinions and whether I should do anything.

A couple of times recently I’ve been changing my child after swimming and a dad has come in to change his child in the communal female changing room. It’s after lessons so only children changing. There are communal female, communal male and a number of individual cubicles. It gets very busy at peak times so at times you may need to wait for an individual cubicle.

It feels weird to me a grown man being in there and my instinct is that he should use the private cubicles, though he is clearly there with his child helping them get ready. I also understand him not wanting to take his child into the men’s communal changing rooms with random men in there but to me, he is a random man.

Should I say something? Would you? Chances are it’s just a normal dad changing his kid but I don’t feel entirely comfortable with it but not sure if IABU?

Yes incredibly, master.

Could you quote the bit saying that people with DSDs are neither male of female

My fluffy little girl brain couldn’t possibly cope with reading erudite academic articles. Never mind.

Why don’t you mansplain it to me and save me the bother?

<flutters eyelashes>

While I agree that this man should not be in a women’s communal changing room, I remain baffled by some of the responses on here and the apparent assumptions underlying them.

I would have thought that it’s obvious that child sex abuse knows no bounds in terms of sexual preference ie whether heterosexual or homosexual. That being the case, an unrelated male should not be around kids of either sex changing in the women’s, but nor should he be around kids of either sex changing in the men’s. Many posters don’t seem to be grasping that, in terms of the threat to unrelated children, the two environments are the same. Some have said ‘but there might be an unaccompanied 11 year old girl in the ladies. Yes, and she definitely shouldn’t be encountering a man, BUT there could be an unaccompanied 11 year old boy in the men’s, and I don’t think he should be encountering an unrelated adult male either.

Also, child sex abuse knows no bounds in terms of the age of the child. If they’re accompanied in communal areas then that offers some protection, but still, there is a risk of a paedophile with an interest in very young children being in the presence of naked young children and I don’t think any parent would be happy with that even if they are present. The risk of this is equal whether the communal area is male or female. Some posters seem to be talking as if there is only an issue around children who are hitting puberty, and only an issue with men being around girls.

There is a massive issue here with communal changing areas generally.

I can’t use a changing space with a lock on the door where I am in the inside and there might be a man on the other side.

I can’t. It’s impossible.

so I NEED that communal area. I NEED that single sex communal area.

I do not want a man (sensible emergencies excepted) in that changing space even if he is there to change his child.

He should petition the pool for more mixed sex changing spaces. Or more family changing spaces.

Or just take his daughter, if she is U8, into the men’s.

I'm looking forward to this quote.

It might be a while

Oh I know.
We can patiently wait amid the tumbleweeds.

It's more than slightly amusing.

You might wish to read the introduction:

"In general, intersex refers to the state of being born with biological sex characteristics that vary from what is typically thought of as exclusively male or female."

and

"“congenital conditions in which development of chromosomal, gonadal, or anatomical sex is atypical”"

There might be a decision to classify people as "male" or "female" - but biologically, this is not correct.

So no quote from the paper stating that people with DSDs are neither male nor female

No I don't wish to read the introduction.

I wish for you to use the quote spannasaurus is asking for.

If someone is neither male nor female I wonder how you decide how their development of chromosomal, gonadal, or anatomical sex is atypical. Is it atypical of a male or a female?

Steady now spannasaurus. You might show intellect and knowledge above your station...

The anatomy of intersex individuals is not necessarily clearly male or female. One could of course simply argue that the presence of a Y chromosome makes someone male - but that's obviously not a sensible approach.

On what basis would you decide whether someone is assigned "male" or "female" sex?

I’m sorry. I don’t understand what you just said.

well I did. I think. But it doesn’t make sense.

Chromosomes don’t make you male or female? Since when? And why is that not sensible?

Rather than looking for the presence of a Y chromosome the more sensible approach would be to identify the presence of the SRY gene or not. Some further tests may be required to determine
if that person has functional androgen receptors

So you would consider the presence of SRY to be sufficient to classify someone as male?

I see your point - but how would you then deal with incomplete development? Wouldn't here be an - admittedly very small - group who would simply fall outside any classification?

SRY gene plus functional androgen receptors is a man according to Prof Robert Winston.

I'm not a doctor so wouldn't be dealing with anyone's incomplete development nor would I be determing their sex. That's a job for their doctors.

Wasn't this covered in the article you linked to?

I was not addressing you; nor do I have any intention of justifying myself to you. Who are you? Pixels on the internet, just as I am to you.

I'm sorry - this was clearly not intended to quote you. Please accept my apology.

It's a little bit more complicated - and in the end, it depends on the definition: what criteria should be used to identify someone as male or female (I mean biologically).

And yes, in the majority of cases, this is undoubtedly correct - but a single exemption invalidates any general claim, and I responded to the general claim that all individuals who are not female are male.

Perhaps the misunderstanding is due to the fact that for me, a single exception invalidates any generalisation (as it does for mathematical proofs), but for most normal people that might not be the case?

Are you a medical professional?

I have an education in clinical chemistry - although I no longer work in this profession. But I did teach developmental biology some time ago.

Aaaand there goes the thread….

Do you know more than Prof Robert Winston about human sex and reproduction?