Underhand house purchase tactics.

[Helpmysanity]

UK property, A neighbour house and has Sold STC. They accepted an offer from somone who has sold their own home (rejected offers from those that hadnt). There is however nothing they want to buy. They are undecided if they do still want to sell or extend meanwhile their buyers are unknowingly under the impression it will still go through. Is this normal practice? How are you expected to sell if there is nothing to buy that fits the brief! Presumably at some point they will have to pull out and stay or put back on market, but again what's the point if they can't buy?

It got me thinking, people generally won't accept an offer from someone who hasn't sold, understandably. However if I saw a house I wanted and I hadn't sold what's stopping me from accepting an offer from someone who hasn't sold as there is plenty of those around, to then enable me to put in an offer while all under pretence that I have sold (although only to someone who hasn't sold). I see houses on the market that are Sold STC and have been that way for months if not a years sometimes. Is that because people below are accepting offers when they shouldn't?

We are considering selling but there is nothing that we want to buy that isn't already Sold STC it just makes me wonder how many of these will fall through!

What are all the underhand tactics people use?

New fear unlocked ....
We have spent a fortune and are deep in the midst of buying a new property but the sellers have told us if completion doesn't happen by the end of this month they will pull out of the sale.
Now I'm thinking, are they this couple 🤣 and if so it's so cruel, just wait a couple more damn weeks!!!!!

Good luck, I hope it all goes through smoothly for you I'm sure it will be fine.

The first house we rented 20 odd yrs ago the owner purchased a house in Scotland and their England chain fell though so they had to reslist and rent out in the mean time as they had no choice. They were lucky they could still proceed!

Act like a twat, dont be surprised if others do likewise.

I've bought and sold twice. Both times our offer was accepted before our house was on the market. I'm reasonably confident we didn't overpay either time. Both times our vendor wanted info on our current house, I guess so they knew it was readily saleable.
We're in Scotland, and despite reputation it is perfectly legal to pull out after offer is accepted, however it seldom happens in practice, because of the expectation @/acceptance that offers are final.
If you're tied to an area that has few properties (and therefore few come onto the market) it's surely pretty much unavoidable?

But your solicitor/estate agent presumably wouldn’t misrepresent the chain to the people in the house you’re buying. I sold my house last year and I knew roughly the position all the way down the chain from my solicitor/estate agent.

So the agent would say “Helpmysanity has offered you £x, they have accepted an offer on their house from someone who hasn’t yet sold their own house” and the people whose house you’re buying would agree to take the risk or not as the case may be.

I understand what you mean. So we had this scenario. We viewed a home that was perfect for us and had liked for a while. Ours wasn't on the market. We were not actively house hunting We made an offer subject to the sale of ours. They accepted as they were not in a hurry to move. They were open with their seller (new property) that they had sold their property and it was subject to the sale of ours. However that third person in the chain then made an offer on a new property said their house had sold and didn't say it was subject to a sale further down the chain (they were very annoyed when they did find out as they had knocked back lower cash offers). Is this what you mean?

Currently in NI you can't make an offer on a house if you aren't on the market yourself, such is the market. Indeed, some estate agents are refusing to even offer viewings unless you're sale agreed.

I made an offer when my house wasn’t even on the market. Our dream house went up for sale and we offered on the day that we viewed. Put ours up and sold it, in the same week. Thank god the vendor didn’t think like your neighbours!

Yes this happens and has done so for many years. Eventually the sellers who haven't bought get caught out and either the sale falls through, they move into rented or get their skates on and purchase.

A good, competent estate agent will keep up the pressure to exchange contracts (as they want their fee).

It's one of the things that makes buying and selling property such a stressful experience as it allows 'bad actors' to function with impunity

They’ll be told your not procedable

when we were selling, until we were procedable we couldn’t view most houses and none would accept an offer till we were (ie complete chain below us)

Exactly the same. Our house sold in 9 days. And the house we bought had several viewers booked in when we made an offer subject to the sale of our house. It wasn't on the market as we didn't intend to move again. I know a few friends and family that have done this also and it has worked out however I have also in the past come across sellers who don't want viewers unless they are sold or chain free.

I'm in Scotland.

A foreigner’s POV: this chain system is outdated, other countries have a system in place so you can borrow the funds to buy the new house until the previous one is sold. Obviously limited in time but it has worked for decades.
And also making/accepting an offer means you’ll pay a penalty if you change your mind. No drama with people changing their mind late in the process.

I wonder who benefits from the current system of chains and non-committal offers?

You are not proceedable if the chain below you is not proceedable!

When I worked in banking years ago we had 'bridging loans' in the UK for this purpose but I haven't heard of anyone using them for a long time so I'm not sure if still possible.

The law in England and Wales on house purchase is different from Scotland. Whilst not perfect, the Scottish system is better and in the absence of a better suggestion would adopt it UK wide.

The person selling a house with none being bought could have some short-term plan if they find nothing yet, such as staying with a relative. However, if all they are doing is causing delays, not acceptable.

Thank goodness for the quick no chain problem in Scotland
A deal is a deal

It’s not underhand, the EA will know the situation. I put my house on the market as I saw one for sale I wanted. It sold before I got an offer on mine. I then accepted the offer on the understanding that I hadn’t yet found a property to purchase so couldn’t give a timescale. The purchaser held off on surveys, searches etc. until I found a property to purchase. The sale then went ahead.

Alternatively she could have withdrawn her offer if she didn’t want to wait.

Chains normally build from the bottom. The person at the top normally has their eye on something, but if not and they don’t find anything theres the option to go into rented. Or they have to pull out, and the next person down has the option to go into rented. Failing that the chain collapses.

If you accepted an offer from someone who wasn’t proceedable the estate agent would find out. They check out all transactions below, not just the one immediately below.

Because any decent estate agent will check the chain. An incomplete chain isn't a chain.

They do still exist but they are very expensive.

I thought as much! Thanks

Honestly it's the buyer. Most people need a mortgage to buy and your lender will not do a valuation (nor would you want to pay the fee for one) if you haven't had an offer accepted on the property. For plenty of people it only then becomes apparent that it's non-standard construction or has 2 kitchens so is viewed as an HMO rather than a property with an annexe and they won't lend on it.

You also only do a full mortgage application (next step from a mortgage in principle) once you have a specific property you're buying, so sometimes credit issues arise.

It's the same with local authority searches - you pay for those once you have had your offer accepted and then find out about Japanese knotweed. Sold subject to contract is only really a reservation.

If we had a system where it was binding unless the buyer couldn't get a mortgage, they lost their job/died, or the house had structural or legal issues many would fall through anyway.

Agree. It's not underhand (if the chain are aware) it's just seen as more risky by some but in our case our seller was happy to accept an offer from us even though ours wasn't on the market as they were flexible with time and not in a rush. We were lucky it sold in 9 days. If it had taken some time they may have reconsidered. Similarly a friend in Edinburgh has just offered on a house with one to sell and they have accepted but only given her 6 weeks to sell. She's had several viewers this week and will likely have no problem meeting that deadline.

Your posts make perfect sense to me.
The problem is that your seller would, fairly soon, find out that you are not proceedable. Through communications between estate agents and solicitors. Also, estate agents won't let someone, who is not proceedable put an offer in.
Years ago this wasn't a problem. I had offers accepted on properties, before my house was under offer. This is pre 2010