ICE and your young adult child

[user3867599]

DC is a dual citizen (US and UK), just finished university and is living and working in a city in the US where ICE is about to be deployed.

What would you say to them?

In theory that's right. And I'm not personally worried that ICE is there for DC.

But they are at the moment doing things like putting 17 year old US citizens in chokeholds and randomly grabbing autistic women out of cars. That's my point. What do you do if or when you see that? Do you try to assist in protecting them? Do you protest that?

Since Jan 2025 there have been 16 shootings by ICE, 4 fatal.
In the same time frame there has been 341 attacks against ICE including 66 using vehicles. I'm surprised they are not more quick to shoot given those stats.

I'd tell him not too have any interaction with ICE officers. Be there to show solidarity with the community, blow whistles etc. But don't mouth off at anyone.

LumiK ·

"ICE isn't there for them. They're there for people who shouldn't be"

Oh- like the indigenous people they are targeting then .

It's none of my business. But then I'm not the type to go to protests because I don't think waving placards does any good in the real world. Perhaps if you are and you've brought your kid up to do so, that explains the concern.

LumiK
"I don't think waving placards does any good in the real world."

Well it did for the Suffragettes.

I’d tell them to get a good bullhorn and work on their sign making skills. Fuck ICE.

It didn’t though really, did it? That wasn’t the only action from the suffragettes. It’s not like they went out and waved placards and BAM got the vote.

Practically everything exists to some extent. But if they exist they are in small enough numbers to be a nonfactor. I’ve never encountered them and don’t know anyone who has. And I’ve been going to protests for a long time.

Considering that those statistics are coming from DHS, the leaders of which, have stood at podiums and lied in broad daylight, you'll excuse me if I take them with a grain of salt.

@LumiK I actually am not a big protestor, but when you're a citizen of a country in which you feel the government is adopting unacceptable policies, and in which you do still nominally have the right to protest, how else do you take a stance? How do you feel about the protestors in Iran?

These protests have been more than waving placards, surely? They're partly about providing safe escort, making sure actions are documented. Do we not think that's important?

But that's my point. I want my DC to stay safe, but at the same time I don't want my DC to look at a 17 year old being dragged on his face or an autistic woman being manhandled out of their car for no reason and shrug and say, not my business.

It’s really their decision, not what you want them to do.

Except that in the course of enforcing the law, Ice agents have been committing crimes far more serious than the one they are ostensibly trying to combat. Being an illegal immigrant is a misdemeanor or even a civil infraction in the US. Excessive force, battery, and false imprisonment are felonies, as are entering a private space without a signed judicial warrant, and deprivation of rights under color of authority. And, of course, murder. Most of these have occurred regularly over the past year, and the last has happened more than once.

In a democracy, you cannot send lawless thugs to enforce the law and expect people to obey you. This is how you bring a staid midwestern state to the brink of rebellion.

Completely. But we do talk, as a family, about decisions. I can't tell DC what to do, but I can tell them how I feel.

There is a reason practically every interaction with ICE is filmed, and it’s not just generating clicks on social media. The blue state governors have asked people to film ICE agents violating the law, so that they can be arrested when the Democrats regain power.

LumiK
"It didn’t though really, did it? That wasn’t the only action from the suffragettes. It’s not like they went out and waved placards and BAM got the vote."

Yes they did other things as well but placard waving, and marching were also instrumental in helping women gain the vote, as it helped to raise public awareness, and kept the issue of women's suffrage on the political agenda.

Link please.
How many of those 66 agents in front of cars deliberately put themselves there to cause the issues?

Op you have obviously brought your dc up well. Tell them to trust their judgement, do what they feel is right and stay safe.

Governments routinely do this. I leave them to it.

Iran is a completely different kettle of fish.

Who is funding all these protesters? Is it antifa? Didn't Noem say she had arrested the ‘girlfriend of the founder of Antifa’? Maybe she could stop them being paid if she arrested the actual head.

She definitely doesn't lie about stuff does she.

Honestly if it were my son, dont get involved in protests. Don't interfere with law enforcement. If an officer says stop then stop and if the ask you to get out of the car you get out.

Then don’t say anything. They are a grown up and can make their own decisions.

As a lawyer he is going to have a whole set of useful skills which will have more impact than waving placards.
I think that the legal challenges have been the most successful way of getting ICE out of cities and states.

I would and have told my kids that protesting without being part of wider community organising and action is more about feeling and wanting to appear right than doing the right thing. Actual community organising to bring about change takes a lot of unseen work, there are many ways to be part of movements that isn't putting oneself in the limelight or make oneself a target.

Protests tends to be glamorised with big movements of the past, it tends to get glossed over that they're only one small part of pushing for change and on their own very ineffective. Protests are also more likely than not to have people - whether with the government or just for laughs - who are there to disrupt it and bring wider society against the cause. Does he know how to spot that? Is he connected enough with the community to know how to deal with that?

Those hiding people from the Nazis or slavecatchers weren't making themselves targets. They were very specifically trying not to be seen by authorities. They were a very different part of the resistance from those who went out to kill SS soldiers or go all John Brown in the US south. Movements need different people trained and able for different things. Has he connected with any organisations to have training on how to handle the potential for violence nonviolently and know the local objectives beyond stopping ICE raids or is he just going along and hoping that him being there is going to somehow stop them? What is his plan beyond going to a protest - cause that's not a plan for change, that's a trip with political themes.

It's one thing to get swept up in the pain and rage against an oppressive force like we've seen in Iran and many other places - with very high horrific costs and sadly little benefit to it - it's another to basically take a day trip with a chance of getting and causing harm just because you think it's the right thing to do without any training before or plan for what comes next.

I have multiple citizenships, including UK and US, thankfully I didn't pass on the latter to my kids, and thankfully while my young adult and teenage kids have done protests, they chose low risk options with awareness that it was more about bringing communities together to organise and talk next steps than thinking having signs outside a government building was going to make any changes any time soon.

I think people are reading protest in a rather narrow way as 'waving placards'.

As I mentioned earlier, DC is a young lawyer and has been involved doing pro bono work, largely with one of the communities now being targeted, many of whom are law-abiding, tax-paying people who were on the path to legal citizenship. They also are involved due to some volunteer sport coaching.

So, I'm talking about escorting people to get their children to school, letting people know if it's unsafe for them to attend sports practice and staying involved on a legal level.

Although I do believe they intend to be at some protests to show solidarity as well as filming to document if necessary.

Has he connected with any organisations to have training on how to handle the potential for violence nonviolently and know the local objectives beyond stopping ICE raids

Yes, but that's obviously not a guarantee of safety if things get heated.