AIBU - expecting son to pay for his own 'luxury' groceries on top of rent

[QuaintNewt]

23yo DS pays £500 a month 'rent'. This includes, all bills including mobile but ive recently asked him to take this on himself as he can get cheap sim only contract and good for credit rating etc. It also includes meals and snacks Sunday - Thursday with the original agreement being he buys his own meals on weekends (take aways) although if im cooking i will offer to include him and his gf in meals too.

We are very comfortable and not financially 'short' but also not loaded, we live well but dont have loads left over, and DS earns around £1800 after tax and has EV paid through work costing him £30 a month BIK (he charges at home and claims work mileage as expenses) so no other outgoings .

He thinks £500 a month is excessive and we have recently had a discussion about him paying us for his car electricity on top of his rent, I also do not want to buy him large packs of canned drinks and coffee pods (nespresso) as part of our weekly shop. The coffee machine was purchased as weve recently moved rurally and i miss my occasional coffee shop coffee but dont expect to be paying £150 a month in pods for is all which I can see happening ig DH,DS,DD all start drinking 2 o 3 coffees a day!

AIBU and a tighta**e or do you think expecting him to purchase these things himself is fair?

Personally I don’t agree with charging DC to stay in their own home unless they are either earning a fortune or it is absolutely necessary.

Putting that to one side, in my view it’s absolutely obscene to be charging your own son £500 a month. I appreciate that includes food but frankly it sounds like you have a nice little earner going, as it can’t possibly cost that much to have him at home.

You talk about ‘bailing him out’ like you’ve performed some huge charity, but he is your son! We accept an ongoing obligation to our DC when we have them!

I don’t see how what it would cost to rent in an expensive location is relevant as some have claimed. Rental costs are so high as a result of property prices increasing and greedy landlords. That doesn’t mean parents should be using that as an excuse to profit!

Absolutely this @QuaintNewt.

He doesnt do any shared housework or contribute to the household in other works - doesnt even clean up after himself, we have asked and its not worth the fights/backlash. We have also asked him to not smoke etc in the house/garden which he does anyway.

Wtf. This bothers me much more than the financial situation. How dare he be so disrespectful? It is your house, and he needs to live it in a clean and respectful way. I would not tolerate my children not cleaning up for themselves. Great, another man who grows up thinking it is not his job to look after his household and clean. He’s going to make a great partner and parent in the future, no doubt. 🙄🙄🙄 Ugh

We don't charge DS anything now he's back from uni and working full time and studying part time. He is saving and adding to his house deposit pot - he's never going to be able to leave if we take his money. He pays his car insurance and phone. Food he eats with us and anything out of the ordinary he can buy himself but he and his girlfriend are quite frugal. This is with a husband retired on ill health and me being the only wage earner.

@TomatoSandwiches

Why should be be grateful for his landlord deigning to only charge him £500 a month?

Personally i think £500 a month is a lot for your own child esp if you dont 'need' the money. It also feels like youve moved the goalposts, originally incl the mobile phone and then excl it for the same price, incl the bills but now wanting to charge him car electric, including snacks but now wanting to charge extra - i dont think coffee and drinks are 'luxuries' really either tbh.

I think you need a calm, sensible conversation where you agree and you all stick to it. Maybe charge less but only include evening meals if he has what youre having, and he buys his own coffees and cans? £500 + his own drinks + mobile + coffees/cans does seem a lot to me personally.

My DS pays £200 a month which is all family meals if he wants them (but he buys/cooks his own if preferred) but he pays for his own car and phone AND he also cuts the grass and trims the hedges in summer and takes DD to an activity once a fortnight when im.at work. This works for us and we agreed it together. It is of course up to you but i dont think its fair to keep adding extra costs on, how is he supposed to budget if it keeps changing!

"I truly believe that the biggest favour we can do for our children is to teach them to be responsible, self sufficient adults. This includes paying rent and expenses. Lots of parents who are financially comfortable save the ‘rent’ and give it back to their adult child later on to help with house deposit etc."

Except donating a house deposition from the Bank of Mum & Dad isn't really teaching them to be 'responsible, self sufficient adults'...

But why should DS have £1300 (or more, if OP were to charge a lower rent) of free cash per month, if OP and her DH have considerably less?

Sure, don't charge £500 if his take home is £600 but he has a lot of spare money.

He needs to move out now and stand on his own two feet. By 'rescuing' him you are failing to let him learn from his mistakes, which he absolutely needs to do.

Sorry OP, but I'd be telling him he's moving out and that this time there would be NO BAILOUT if he got into difficulties this time. The fact that he expects bailouts, won't do his share of housework, and you've even stopped asking him to clean up after himself because "its not worth the fights/backlash" - well, fuck that shit.

If you keep doing what you have always done (bailouts, waiting upon him) then you will keep getting what you have always got (a feckless lazy abusive kidult).

It's our job as parents to produce functional independent adults, because eventually we die and they're on their own regardless. The only alternatives to being a functional adult is living in your own filth, or being a parasite upon an actual functional adult (who will tire of being their skivvy and get rid of them, whence he starts living in his own filth again).

So, what's it to be? Abusive parasite, or training him to be a functional adult? Because we both know that bailing him out and waiting upon him isn't working for you, and in the long term will not work for him.

I would tell him he shapes up or ships out, and mean it. He follows the house rules, or fucks off - and there will be no bailout this time. But you've got to mean it, otherwise you're just reinforcing the poor training for adulthood he's already received - that he can do what he wants with no consequences to himself.

Tell him to find somewhere else for 500 a month.

£500 is more than my mortgage was!

Does it cost you that to house him or are you making a profit?

Tell him the deal is the deal and if he doesnt like it he should feel free to move out again and see if he can make it work this time.

as much as I agree with posters it’s cheaper than elsewhere. I do feel when you start to profit out your kids then it’s too much, and I think if you did the maths on additional costs to you for him being there, you’re likely now profiting. And for me, that’s not ok,

My DS earns similar. We are ok financially. Definitely not well off but not skint either. He gives £150 every four weeks. I get groceries as usual and anything else he wants extra, he gets and cooks. He works really hard in his job and is generous and thoughtful when he goes to the shops, asking if we need anything - and doesn’t ask for the money if we do. He is in to the gym and eats lots of mince, eggs, avocado etc etc so lots of expensive stuff which he pays for. Each evening meal we cook, he has with us, if he’s about. He’s well aware of how much things cost and appreciates he would struggle renting or whatever. He saves his money so I would rather only take what covers what we think he should pay. I don’t want to make a profit from him.

While your rationales for an increase are sound, I fear you are in danger of making your relationship very transactional and penny pinching with your son. It’s kind of stingy to start asking for extra money for snacks or coffee or to charge his car. It’s going to cause arguments.

I would honestly just say that rent will increase each year in line with inflation- the rental index. That is much easier to defend as reasonable without picking on small life luxuries that he enjoys.

So, while yanbu to ask for more rent, I think yabu to ask for rent plus this and plus that and no more coffee- changing the agreement around is a threat to your future realstionship.

YANBU. That's all.

Cheapest single rooms near to me are £650 pcm and that does not include any food. I chargedy my youngest ds £300 pcm but he did a lot of chores around the house and cooked for family once a week. My eldest DS paid £400 pcm but did not do as many chores as worked longer hours. They got Sky Sports, Sky Movies, TNT, Disney +, Amazon Prime including in their room and Virgin speed of light internet for gaming. Now they have both moved into their own homes and we got rid of the super fast internet and TV in bedrooms. We also save a lot of both water and electricity as well as food and they now pay their own phone contracts. I never bought coffee pods for them though or cans. If they wanted those they bought them themselves.

Again, I think the reason OP is looking at charging for coffee pods etc is that the DS doesn’t seem to have any respect for the house or for budgeting. It’s like he’s treating the place as an AI hotel. So she’s trying to forestall areas where this might happen.

My son currently pays £100 a week contribution to household expenses, plus an additional £100 every month to cover petrol as we run him to work and back most days and let him use the car to practise his driving in, or to get himself around if one of us has the time to accompany him (learner driver).

I buy some items out of this £100 per week which are solely for him, probably about £10 - £15 a week.

He’s hardly making himself an appealing “flatmate” with his behaviour- if he was offering to cook once a week, not smoking at home and suggesting a cleaning rota, I dare say OP would feel more lenient about coffee pods.

My ds takes home 1800 pcm too. Nearly 21. I only charge £350 as there is no mortgage or rent.

£500 sounds excessive to me. It helps mine build up savings.

So many middle-class, well-off people are so tight with their kids. I know someone who is rolling in it but is charging her son £100 for a return journey to university when the petrol costs £50. I know someone else who refuses to give her child any money for university despite them having significant amounts in savings. I also notice that both these parents don't have a strong relationship with their children. And before anyone says it, I helped my kids within reason but didn't go totally overboard. However, charging £500 a month seems excessive when they should be saving for their own home.

However, charging £500 a month seems excessive when they should be saving for their own home.

He can save £1300 pcm, less the odd takeaway bill

i think £500 per month is mean if he’s saving to buy a house. My partner and I put £800 each into a joint account and that covers all essential bills including mortgage and food!