AIBU - expecting son to pay for his own 'luxury' groceries on top of rent

[QuaintNewt]

23yo DS pays £500 a month 'rent'. This includes, all bills including mobile but ive recently asked him to take this on himself as he can get cheap sim only contract and good for credit rating etc. It also includes meals and snacks Sunday - Thursday with the original agreement being he buys his own meals on weekends (take aways) although if im cooking i will offer to include him and his gf in meals too.

We are very comfortable and not financially 'short' but also not loaded, we live well but dont have loads left over, and DS earns around £1800 after tax and has EV paid through work costing him £30 a month BIK (he charges at home and claims work mileage as expenses) so no other outgoings .

He thinks £500 a month is excessive and we have recently had a discussion about him paying us for his car electricity on top of his rent, I also do not want to buy him large packs of canned drinks and coffee pods (nespresso) as part of our weekly shop. The coffee machine was purchased as weve recently moved rurally and i miss my occasional coffee shop coffee but dont expect to be paying £150 a month in pods for is all which I can see happening ig DH,DS,DD all start drinking 2 o 3 coffees a day!

AIBU and a tighta**e or do you think expecting him to purchase these things himself is fair?

That’s fine @jbm16 - happy, from my side, to agree to disagree.

Why do you think it’s acceptable for parents to make a profit from their DC purely because landlords nearby are profiteering?

Personally I think it’s abhorrent. DH says it would literally be the talk of the town in Spain, and grandparents and other family members would be having strong conversations with any parents who tried it.

@SilkySquirrel for the last time, because I have stated it previously - I consider it reasonable for all earning adults in a household to contribute to the costs of that household. Especially in a case like this, where the contribution for board, lodging and bills leaves plenty over for saving (and smoking, apparently)

And I consider describing this as “profiteering” and “abhorrent” to be hyperbolic and rather ridiculous.

You (and your DH, apparently) disagree - that’s fine. I’m not going to change your mind and you aren’t going to change mine.

(BTW, your DH is welcome to create his own account - you don’t have to report his opinion for him)

I shan’t respond further to you as I have been entirely clear. Have a good day.

I really can’t understand parents that don’t. It’s about teaching him responsibility as an adult and that if he was renting he would be paying nearly 3 x that. It still costs them money for him to live there and subsidise food and extra hot water/ electricity. At what age then do you suggest he starts to become independent?

Many parents save the rent money and give it back as a deposit for a house when they move out. What if they want to retire or downsize? Not easy doing that if your 2: year old is still dependant on you is it? The man needs to understand

budgeting
investing
respect for house rules - not smoking - I would never allow that in my house - that’s shocking
contributing to the upkeep of the house

I have an adult son at home whilst studying- he works part time and would always clear up after himself. He is far from perfect but he will mow the lawn/ cut the hedge and do various jobs to help out. It’s called taking responsibility and raising a functional adult not Molly coddling a big baby. No wonder so women end up married to these losers!! Mumsnet is full of posts of mem who don’t pull their weight in a relationship and here is why - attitudes like yours. Shocking.

What happens in Spain if the parents are struggling and the DC is far better off?

They can be responsible and independent without being charged an arbitrary rent. Contributing to cover the additional household costs of them living in the home, is ok, but I don't see how charging an amount just because it's the going rate helps them become independent.

Also, never understood parents taking rent and giving it back, that doesn't teach them any life skills. Better to help them budget and save themselves...

But surely they should pay a fair share of expenses. If bills are 1200 and there's 3 adults then £,400 each.

He has moved out twice before and both times got himself in financial difficulties resulting in us having to bail him out and him move back home - this last time he would have lost his job (a degree apprenticeship) otherwise.

when he moves buys a house
I note you said 'when' not 'if'.

It seems that you are determined to see him keep his good job and be a home owner. So you put up with all sorts of crap from him, because you don't want him to be downwardly mobile, i.e. end up in rented accommodation in a poorly-paid job with no prospects.

But he doesn't do any housework (I pity his future wife), leaves a mess everywhere, and disrespects you by smoking against your wishes.

At what point do you give up on propping up his future middle-class lifestyle and let him sink or swim on his own? What will it take for you to kick him out?
Even if you are not there yet, it is good to think about this in advance and establish where your red-lines will be.

Families in Spain are extremely close-knit and will support each other when necessary.

However, it would be absolutely shameful and embarrassing for parents to be charging DC to stay in the family home.

Grandparents or siblings would often step in to help those struggling.

Why?? People seem to have different views, but from my perspective we are providing a family home, and have told all the children that whatever happens in their lives they will always be welcome. We have those costs regardless of whether they live with us or not. Happy for them to contribute to additional costs of them stay, food gas/electric etc. however for me I don't expect our children to pay our mortgage...

I would much rather they save the money and become self sufficient sooner, than us charge some arbitrary amount of money that we don't need, however I know everyone might be in the same situation as us.

Having pondered on it further - once a dc is an adult earning enough that they do have a realistic option of moving out, that is the point at which I consider it fair they pay a meaningful contribution to the costs of the household. Not such a big contribution that they can’t save or have a social life, but a meaningful one.

Because they are making an adult decision to stay in the parental home vs a viable alternative

I wasn't including mortgage sorry I no longer have one so didn't cross my mind. A fair share of utilities/ food ) council tax ( I lost my 25% discount for having adult child thereand utilities more than doubled. No standing charge on gas/ electric so all usage

'I really can’t understand parents that don’t. It’s about teaching him responsibility as an adult and that if he was renting he would be paying nearly 3 x that.'

They know that. In the same way they know if we give them a lift somewhere it is free, if they get a taxi they pay.

It is up to us to teach our kids to do housework as they are growing up, for whatever reason the op hasn't bothered and has a lazy 23yr old.

500 quid a month to live in the family home then quibbling about coffee and electricity is absolutely crazy.

It is up to us to teach our kids to do housework as they are growing up, for whatever reason the op hasn't bothered and has a lazy 23yr old.

You don't know if she hasn't bothered. You don't know if DH hasn't bothered. Just because he isn't doing it now, doesn't mean he wasn't shown how to do it. And he is 23 - he hardly believes that fairies are coming round to wash the pans. He's persuaded someone to give him paying work - ergo, he can load a dishwasher, or ask how to if he really can't figure it out.

But he isn’t either independent or responsible is he? He left home a few times and had to bailed out! He disrespects the house rules not to smoke in the house ( disgusting to put that on people) and doesn’t clear up after himself. Then gets his meals cooked and bills paid. Sounds like a lazy disrespectful freeloader to me. Wouldn’t happen on my watch - I would not have bailed him out. I would have let him fail so he learns the value of money. At 23 he now has to learn through self discovery. As I said, OP is good to charge rent but is still now enabling a freeloading male who no doubt will expect to do fuck all to support his wife in the future as he has never had to stand up and be a real man. Grim.

They can be welcome and also responsible adults who pay their way. The two are not mutually exclusive. Being welcome means there will always be a home for them, and they will always be welcome and comfortable there. It doesn't mean they will never have to pay their way or lift a finger to help keep the home neat and tidy.

This idea that DC need to be exploited by their parents to learn how to manage their finances is ludicrous.

Parents should be helping DC learn about money from a young age. Unless they have SEN, they will be well aware of how much things cost.

Can you explain why encouraging salaried adults to pay their way is exploitative?

In terms of charging I do think it moves the goals posts, you are putting conditions on them staying.

Behaviour is slight different I wouldn't tolerate how the OP's son behaves, but my children would treat the house and us with respect. so wouldn't be an issue, either way charging rent will not change that.

Wouldn't happen in our house either, but charging £500 a month doesn't change his behaviour...

Why is he even living at home? You are out in the sticks and penny-pinching. If I were him I would move out. It sounds like your relationship is dreadful.

It is explorative to make money out of your DC when you don’t need it.

£500 is much more than what it will cost the OP for her son to stay at home.

I think the £500 is fair enough if he does nothing in the house, you provide cleaning, laundry, meals etc. Yes of course he should buy his own fancy stuff, the cheeky git, and should NOT be smoking in the house if you ask him not to. That would be enough reason to encourage him to find somewhere else.

well obviously it’s not changing his behaviour as we have already heard, but at a minimum it makes him at least contribute something financially to the cost of having him there and sends a message that he cannot just stay there for free. I would go much further than £500 a month and set boundaries around the respect and cleaning up issues. Plus ask for a contribution to food - he can have his own cupboard. I would not pay for his phone at 23. Ridiculous! The expectation at 23 is he is living independently but making a saving by paying a reduced rent. He would pay much more on the open market. The expectation is that saving is invested for a house deposit so he can eventually move out. If he doesn’t do that then what incentive is there to ever move out?

How do you know her bills?