To be so scared and horrified about ICE?

[BarbaraVineFan]

Sorry, I know there must be other threads about this, but I’m lying in bed alone , feeling really terrified about what’s going on in the US right now and what it will lead to. I keep seeing videos saying that Trump’s administration is behaving as though they don’t have to worry about winning an election because they will just seize power. I also saw a couple suggesting that this is the start of civil war. I think it’s such a dark time for the world and I am genuinely worried for my 6 year old DD’s future.

This is absolutely nothing to do with you. It’s not happening in your country, it’s a domestic issue in a different country,

Nelson Mandela believed that international opposition to apartheid, including boycotts, had a big impact on bringing about its abolition, @Sskka .

And I think abuse of human rights is everyone's business, wherever it's happening.

Hard to respond to a load of buzzwords but digital ID has been scrapped for now, blasphemy isn't against the law, assisted suicide is for those who are terminally ill, people are not being arrested for "social media posts" in their thousands - social media posts could be part of crimes such a stalking, harassment, malicious communications that should rightly be prosecuted as they would be when carried out through other platforms, there is an inquiry into grooming gangs.....thankfully as we so far remain in a democracy and with a relatively free press these things can all be discussed and voted on. There are things we should rightly debate and vote on, directly and indirectly. Everybody won't agree about e.g. assisted dying obviously. But moving these things through democratic processes isn't evidence of authoritarianism.

Of course I have may concerns that the UK is also vulnerable to fascism. The topics you have chosen are mostly not the ones I would pick to illustrate this however.

These things are closely linked though.

Why are you scared? Are you an illegal alien?

Ringo I’d be scared of any vast rapid expansion of undertrained paramilitary personnel with a rapidly developing violent team culture by the state. I thought you were right wing! How are you not scared?

Never voted Labour in my life but I'm quite happy for them to be there at the moment in the hope that Reform shoot themselves in the foot before the next election, as another PP has said they are making a pigs ear out of running councils so hopefully people remember that at the ballot box.

Hoping one of the other parties or even Labour will start thinking about the country and stop taking cheap shots at the other parties looking at you Kemi. Yeah some of your shots are sometimes funny but for Pete's sake lets focus on the state of the country

Sorry rant and derailment over

Edit for typos and clarification

Illegal aliens and asylum seekers get an ITIN upon request from the IRS. I think now they can share this information with ICE? Well, I certainly hope they are!

I've seen some shocking ICE videos on new feeds and you tube this morning.

I also same though some comments saying this is a path America been on for a few decades- law enforcment and boarder control tacticsof giving different order than getting voilnet for no complance is standard practise apparently. I tend to agree - even the venezuela stuff isn't as far out there 1990 Manuel Noriega – Panama being very similar.

There's a whole tonne of videos out there often put out by human rights lawyers of US citizens getting brutal treatment and sometime dying as a result or their rights clearly violated by some branch of US government then qullified immunity or just joining another force means it's can be the same poorly trained people inviolved. In that respect ICE isn't something new just much more public at the moment.

Everyone acting like Trump is behaving out of nowhere when he got in an out of control already fast car and has put his foot down on the accelerator.

One of the therories out there is Trump is trying to provoke the citzens so much he can declare martial law and cancel the mid term or later elections. I wouldn't put it past him but what reaction that would get can't say - I don't think the military actually like him or want to support him rather than their constitution.

I do have concerns at direction of travel in our country - I do worry about the errosion of trust in our institutions often prompted by their behvaior. I don't think we are anywhere near the US levels of fuck up yet.

As for US civial war - well a lot of the indicators are there but they could still pull themselved out of the mess they are in. I think world wide they haven't been the force for good they often claim to have been and economically shear amount they owe they were long term fucked anyway.

Because I’m not an illegal alien?

Also, you seem to be confusing right-wing with libertarianism, which is as dimwitted as Marxism and unfortunately very influential in the American right-wing.

I'm a lifelong Labour voter and I'd even vote Tory to keep Reform out.

ICE are also using tax records to find people so hardly illegal immigrants if they’re bothering to register and pay tax but what they may be doing is working more than they’re allowed to under their visa.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2025/jun/27/occupy-democrats/do-people-in-the-us-illegally-pay-more-taxes-than/

• Yale University’s nonpartisan Budget Lab estimated that people in the U.S. illegally paid $22 billion in federal income taxes in 2023.

Here’s how: The IRS allows people who are not eligible for Social Security numbers, such as people who are in the U.S. illegally, to file their taxes with an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, or ITIN. More than 5.8 million people had active ITINs at the end of 2022, the IRS reported.
Immigrants without lawful permission can pay all forms of taxes, including federal income tax, Social Security and state taxes.

...

In 2024, the left-leaning Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy put the figure at more than $96 billion in federal, state and local taxes based on 2022 numbers. Of that, the group found, about $59.4 billion went to the federal government, and $37.3 billion went to state and local taxes.

As I understand it they can claim no benefits if there illegally but paying taxes could help them get citizenship later so many did.

I've seen Vox pop with Trump supproter being told how much illegal immigrats paid in tax and being shocked and aksing why they were paying anything.

I would image though that that would dropp of like a stone - as people leave willingly or not and rest realise it's a way for ICE to find them.

Can you show where Brigit Phillipson has withdrawn unlawful guidance on the Equality Act since the Supreme Court ruling last April? Or explain why she needs costing for businesses before putting guidance before the commons on how to follow a law that has been in place for 15 years? Or provide a copy of her direction to the public sector to ensure that men do not use female spaces regardless how they identify?

Are you saying the BBC here are lying? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn5lxg2l0lqo

Are these KCs lying?
https://archive.ph/x2cgR

Do you disagree that Kim Leadbetter when asked if a patient wished to access assisted dying explicitly because they wanted to save their family money/not be a burden that she stated in committee that “ultimately it does come down to a question of autonomy and dignity and choice for patients”

Or that Starmer has just been forced to do a u turn on his proposal for mandatory digital ID (though we have no idea how realistic it will be to avoid): https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/article/1933986/prime-minister-announces-mandatory-digital-ids-workers

I look forward to your refutations.

Please demonstrate how Farage cares about anti-semitism, im really keen to see the "evidence"?

Why would I be bothered about Farage? I am talking about the party currently in power.

Definitely excessive force but personally I'd have been keeping a respectable distance from an armed law enforcement raid.

I worked for a security provider for a number of years and they managed a lot of high risk contracts like airports, stadiums, shopping centres, etc. Our remit included the strategies for dealing with things like suicide prevention, terrorism incidents, and armed shooters.

Security personnel always have it drilled into them to look out for people acting suspiciously. Especially cars hanging around and acting unusually. With her sitting in the road like that seemingly controlling the flow of traffic she would've likely got their attention straight away. She'd be raising alarm bells about whether she might be armed or about to use the vehicle as a weapon. Or alternatively acting as a getaway driver/blocking off escape routes during an incident.

Proposed laws for Digital ID
You realise that many democracies have ID? If you want stricter enforcement of immigration (you don't mention it but I'm very much getting that vibe from you) then you're going to need something to identify people with).

removal of juries
Lots of countries don't have juries for less serious crimes, many of them top the charts on freedom indicies.

blasphemy
No one is stopping me from saying that God/Allah/whatever doesn't exist.

They are arresting thousands of people for social media posts.
What social media posts? No one is going to arrest me for calling Keir Starmer a wet blanket who spends too much time sitting on a fence. See, I said it and wasn't arrested. If on the other hand I incited a riot and tried to get a mob to burn a building down while people were inside then that would be worthy of an arrest.

Encouraging almost universal law breaking by the public sector in terms of the laws that protects women and girls.
I'm struggling to see the connection to authoritarianism.

Stacking the Lords
There are 209 Labour peers and 281 Conservative.

Manipulating procedures in the Lords to prevent them killing the Chagos bill to give away our sovereignty at huge cost.
I'm still struggling to see how this impacts upon our civil liberties in the UK.

Allowing antisemitism to developed unchecked through regular hate marches.
Is this a government policy then?

Two tier policing
Ha!

Refusing to proper independent inquiry into the grooming and rape of tens of thousands of girls.
Again I'm failing to see how this is a sign of authoritarianism. Do you even know what the word means?

OP, why aren't you horrified about what's happening in Iran where the authorities have said they're going to start executing demonstrators? That horrified me.

ICE have been detaining native Americans on suspicion of being illegal immigrants. Apparently they don't "look American "

Not all concerns about immigration are racist but concern about immigration is being used to cover up racist behaviour.

Okay, so how is ICE closely linked to Iranian backed proxies paid for by embargo busting oil to Russia but still tanking the Iranian economy? And ‘because Trump’ isn't a satisfactory answer, especially considering that this is stuff that predates Trump by many decades. ‘Because America’ would be a bit more acceptable, but then you’ve got to pin it on a number of different presidencies including Democrat ones, the after effects of the collapse of the Iron Curtain, the Cold War, and WW2.

The weird thing is that you are answering most of your questions in the links and quotes you have provided. The supreme court ruling happened. The reasons for the proposed justice system changes and the opposition to them are there to see and they are being discussed. The fact that patients are being offered the chance to die in certain circumstances - the circumstances are pretty critical - means they are free to make that choice for their own reasons. We've already said that digital ID is currently scrapped. So what are you trying to say? Taken altogether this doesn't look like a plotted fascist takeover - it looks mainly like typical politics on a number of topics. By all means continue to raise these issues with you MP, campaign etc. Personally I am very much in favour of assisted dying and I am against removing the automatic right to appeal.

Meanwhile the USA is now fascist, with clear disregard for domestic and international law, murdering people, waging war and at home and abroad, steeped in imagery and ideology of racism, expansionism, elitism and eugenics. I'm glad you agree that we don't want the
same, but I think you are fighting the wrong battles in order to prevent it, and I've got serious questions about your motives in trying to distract and deflect from this.

I worry about all those things and ICE. Not lying awake type worry, but sensible concern. A lot of them are symptoms of the same rot.

At the same time, parliament also heard made up stories about a Bristol school banning an mp because he was Jewish. The visit was in fact rearranged to avoid a planned protest at school pick up time which would have been a safeguarding risk for the children. The protest was not because he was Jewish but because he has is vocal in his support for the Israeli genocide (as defined by international law) in Palestine. Regardless protesting outside a school isnt OK (unless the school is closed).

Lies are being told on all sides, creating a narrative of evil religious conspiracies. We all need to remember the actual people we've interacted with not conspiracy theories designed to divide us.

Trump .. the great protector of Free Speech. imprisoning and Deporting people for “un-American views” - which is shorthand for disagreeing with his views. Completely from the Dictators playbook

I have a family member in Minesotta atm, and we aren’t discussing current ICE protest in our WhatsApp, just in case her phone gets checked for any reason.

In this country I can criticise the Government as much as I like .. as long as I’m not threatening anyone.

While I’m not a fan of ICE and their tactics, and I don’t want this sort of violence over here. I do admit that we need to do more about illegal migration.

If your application is denied you should be removed asap, no appeals which waste our money and cause huge backlogs.

My aunts ex-husbands application was refused twice, yet he was allowed to remain here for over a decade. He was a criminal in his home country, and went onto commit numerous crimes here. He shouldn’t have been here.

Would you accept Project 2025 as an answer? But yes obviously this all does go back to the Cold War but I don't think you want my essay on that.

… and it’s good that he was.