To feel weird about Brownies because there’s a boy there?

[ElizaDolittle124]

Was invited to Brownies tonight to see my daughter do her ‘promise’. Was a bit awkward as it turns out there’s a boy in the group. Another parent turned up with a younger sibling who immediately said loudly ‘mummy why is there a boy here?’ The mum was v flustered trying to explain he wanted to join in and the child just said ‘but brownies is for girls’ until she told him to be quiet.

I just feel a bit weird that I didn’t know. The whole reason we joined brownies was for the girls only environment, which my daughter was really excited about. Feel like I should have just put her in the scouts instead now (which would have been more convenient). But my friend is one of the brownie leaders and she encouraged me by promoting the idea of a girl’s only space.

There’s a brownie camp sleepover thing next month where they sleep in dormitories. My daughter can’t go anyway as we have other plans that weekend, but it’s got me wondering how they’re going to arrange that? Surely they can’t have the boy sleeping separately in a room on his own, but equally he can’t go with the girls?

As a secondary children I have known several girls up to 12 years of age certainly, who looked boyish to the extent that staff (including me) would get their sex wrong. These children were female and identified as girls although their features were ambiguous and all chose an ambiguous haircut and more masculine version of school uniform. Having myself mistaken girls for boys and knowing emails have had to be sent round on occasion as families wanted staff to get it right, I can say with clarity that sometimes you can't know. And at the age of seven I would think that is even more the case. Possibly this ''boy' is female.

Probably he is either actually a girl (not trans just a girls who looks like a boy) or he was a volunteers son who had to brought along so she could come - here I would cut some slack as you might find that the sessions may need to be cancelled otherwise.

I'm assuming it's the OP who's made a mistake here and misidentified a little girl as a boy because they have short hair. This happens all the time to girls that have a "boy's" haircut.

You should report it (sure there’s a head office of Brownies if you google) as the rules are clear in that boys are not allowed. Local brownies shouldn’t be breaching these rules.

That used to be the case until they decided man and boys who think they are women and girls have been welcome for a while now.

The SC ruling has upset them, they have issued a statement recently that they are being forced to go back to being single sex.

As for camp, well they believe they are women / girls so they can share accommodation with women and girls, also parents will not be told because they are women and girls.

This is one of the many areas those of us who took the slur TERF and made it a badge of honour have been concerned about.

Then there is an email:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/5474977-girlguiding?latest=1

Email the leader and say ' we enjoyed the first event. Please could you confirm for me the Brownies and this troop where my dd will attend is female only, including adults? I am not interested in specifics of individuals , but what is the policy for informing parents prior to their childs attendance regarding biological gender of other brownies and adults?

You need it in writing.

I'd be annoyed because I would feel misled. Which means my child would be misled in future occasions. I don't think the child would care tbh, but most little girls want a bf who is also a little girl. Even adult women look for adult women as friends. It's still to be expected.

If you didn't take a dna sample/see him naked I would assume it was a girl @ElizaDolittle124 . I wasn't trans or anything but I looked as a boy with my hair cut short at that age. They are not in puberty so you can't tell that age. It comes down to haircut and clothes and since she wore a uniform...

It doesn’t have to be about who is or isn’t a threat. Gils only means girls only and no amount of saying “but THIS boy is nice” matters.

“I think it’s weird to think it should be girls only”. It IS girls only. That’s the whole point of the organisation. If that’s not for you and your family, that’s totally fine, but it’s not weird to say “why is there a boy (regardless of gender identity) in a girls only organisation. Girls only is girls only.

Of all the things…..

And why obsessing over gender only spaces is ridiculous at this age. It’s also why Brownie numbers are going to drop if mothers like this go round policing groups. So sad.

Girls only is girls only. No one is forced to join the organisation if they don’t agree with that but it’s not unreasonable to expect no boys in a girls only organisation.

?

Surely make an appointment with the leader or email to ask if it’s only girls ie per biological sex. Speak to any other parents you know about girls only policy. If it’s a boy I’d email higher up and ask for clarification on the policy..

My daughter age 8 wanted her hair cut short/cropped so we did. It's just a hair style. Unfortunately it meant she was correcting some kids in the playground who assumed she was a boy. I imagine it's a similar thing you saw a little girl with a short haircut.

I would personally still ask one of the Brownies leaders though. For clarity to check the group is definitely girls only, following recent media.

@katiealcockjust checking if you’ve found this thread

Oooo the MN boy police are out waving their pitch forks. If it’s BO’s son and I was the Brown Owl I’d be walking and leaving somebody else to lead the group.

If it’s a girl it’s incredibly sad to see in the age of equality how girls can’t choose how they look without scrutiny. If I was the parents of said child I’d be making merry hell re a parent or child questioning how my daughter presents.

Just ask them, your friend is one of the leaders so I’m not sure why you feel uncomfortable asking.

You should talk to the Brown Owl. Girls are entitled to a safe single-sex environment. That’s what the Brownies charter promises.

You’re already feeling uncomfortable- do you think that will improve? How will you feel when your dd goes away to Brownie camps?

I would message your friend and say that actually you are going back to Cubs because it’s more convenient and as it wasn’t the female only space you were sold, you may as well make life easier for yourself!

How very obviously? I got mistaken for a boy all the time at that age, and that was in the 80s when short hair was more common in girls.

It was bad enough being mistaken for a boy then, it must be bloody awful now you've got parents on the prowl for 'boys' in girls spaces.

I'm a Brownie leader 👋 You should absolutely feel free to ask the leaders about it. If they are decent leaders, and providing you dont go in all guns blazing, they should have no problem in clarifying the situation for you, especially if the leader is a friend of yours.

We had a girl join our group who was repeatedly mistaken for a boy by many children and adults (particularly as she liked to shorten her name to a unisex version - think Theodora / Theo etc). But if there is a boy in a group, then at least you can make an informed decision about whether to keep your child's place.

To those saying it could be the son of a volunteer, whilst this is allowed, they wouldn't normally wear the uniform if they were just there for childcare reasons.

This and how dare a BO get into conversations about another child. I’d be livid if children, parents and BO were discussing how my daughter chooses to present. I’d request any children questioning my daughter’s appearance (who already attends)weren’t allowed to join. It’s just nasty, small minded and doesn’t bode well as regards future bullying.

Totally agree. It's crazy how many people are assuming that Brownies have got a boy involved for no good reason.

I can't imagine that its a 'trans' girl not at such a young age. And if it was a boy pretending to be a girl surely he'd want long hair, to look like a girl?

So it's either a boyish looking girl or its a leaders son who is involved because she can't leave him home alone.

The child could easily have been a girl. My daughter from the ages of 7-11 decided she wanted very short hair due to sensory triggers. Everywhere we went she was called him, my son etc. She also attended brownies (and now guides) and if anyone new met her they would think she was a boy but obviously as I and the leaders knew she was a girl. We were not going to announce to the whole brownie group that this is the new girl she looks like a boy but she's a girl she just slotted in like everyone else. So the child at your group could very well be a girl like my daughter.