To feel weird about Brownies because there’s a boy there?

[ElizaDolittle124]

Was invited to Brownies tonight to see my daughter do her ‘promise’. Was a bit awkward as it turns out there’s a boy in the group. Another parent turned up with a younger sibling who immediately said loudly ‘mummy why is there a boy here?’ The mum was v flustered trying to explain he wanted to join in and the child just said ‘but brownies is for girls’ until she told him to be quiet.

I just feel a bit weird that I didn’t know. The whole reason we joined brownies was for the girls only environment, which my daughter was really excited about. Feel like I should have just put her in the scouts instead now (which would have been more convenient). But my friend is one of the brownie leaders and she encouraged me by promoting the idea of a girl’s only space.

There’s a brownie camp sleepover thing next month where they sleep in dormitories. My daughter can’t go anyway as we have other plans that weekend, but it’s got me wondering how they’re going to arrange that? Surely they can’t have the boy sleeping separately in a room on his own, but equally he can’t go with the girls?

The numbers of boys joining Scouts had dwindled so much the organisation was going to have to fold which is why they made it co ed.
It was either no Scouts or mixed sex
The same isn't true of Briwnies who often have waiting lists.

Nope, they are entirely separate organisations with zero links. May have both started via the Baden Powells but they are completely unconnected and so decisions of one have no impact on decisions of the other.

It’s about doing what it says on the tin.

"But my friend is one of the brownie leaders and she encouraged me by promoting the idea of a girl’s only space."

Why don't you raise it with your friend? I'd be a pissed off with her if she told me it was a girl-only space when it clearly isn't.

Absolutely say something, the more people who complain the better.

Tough one- I get your funny feeling. Its that Emporers New Clothes feeling where you have to work extra hard to not see reality.

I would ask for clarification in writing that the Brownie group is a single sex female group. What ever their response is you can go from there.

Genuine question - how do you know they were a biological boy, and not a biological girl identifying/presenting as a boy? They would be completely within their rights to join Brownies under the new ruling.

I thought a recent ruling stated that only biological girls were allowed in from now on.

are you 100%/sure this was a boy? I remember waiting for my dd one night and another child going on about a boy in the group. You could tell the mum wanted them to be quiet and other parents were looking awkward. The facts were it wasn’t a boy it was my dd who was constantly being mistaken for a boy.

I will say that our brother spent a lot of time at Brownies - because my Mum got roped into being a leader, my sister and I both went, and our Dad was in the forces, so was away a lot. There was another little brother of another family there, too, for very similar reasons. The boys would have been aged 4-7, at a guess. Otherwise, my Mum certainly wouldn't have been able to be a leader, if she couldn't bring my brother.
However, they didn't put uniform on, or actually pretend to be Brownies. They were allowed to join in games, etc., and I know we have at least one picture with the boys at a weekend thing (although I suspect they slept in with our Mums - I don't recall the detail.)
I think it would be important to check what the situation is, and if it's like the above. I know you will have questions about 'strange' boys being there, and I don't know what parents were told about our brothers....

Like the majority of people on the planet, she has eyes.

My DD had really short hair when she was about age 9 and 100 per cent looked like a boy, everyone who hadn't known her from a baby thought she was a boy. She did gymnastics and a little kid watching said to his Dad "why is that boy wearing a leotard?". His Dad correctly pointed out that she was a girl! She didn't want to be a boy, never wanted to trans, she's very much a heterosexual adult now. She just happened to prefer her hair short at the time. So I reckon the child you thought was a boy must have been a girl.

There are at least 2 posts on this thread, including the one above this, giving an example of my point.

Why not? Just ask. In particular ask the person who encouraged you to go on the basis it was an all girls environment.

Why have you mentioned her sexuality, what does that have to do with anything?

Why would you assume it's about gender? Maybe the mum is part of the Brownie community? What is there to be threatened or alarmed about the presence of a young boy there anyway?! I find your reaction strange.

I say this as someone who was a brownie and girl guide myself all the 90s, I think it's weird to think it should be girls only. They're only 7-10 years old - seems so old fashioned some of the boring 'gender based' stuff we ended up doing. Some parts were cool, but me and my friends would have had a better time at the Scouts, who I think at that time had just started accepting girls.

Think we only did it because my best friend's parents were really conservative and old fashioned and favoured an all-girls environment for her. She was forced into an all girls secondary school too and hated it! Real life does not involve single sex environments - these situations don't prepare you for it.

I just find it weird that you're making such a massive deal about it and making it about gender identity.

What?!?

They're kids. Stop thinking every male is a threat.

I think you just need to ask your friend or a leader for some clarification on the scenario. It is absolutely an OK conversation or email to have with no awkwardness, and it will have no repercussions on your daughter It is often best by email because if you try and ask the question on a brownies session you risk the chance of a busy volunteer or parent helper giving you the answer that first comes to mind that is not the "real answer". If you are not happy with the answers you get, then you can say so, and escalate it, and there is a route to do this, which they will happily give you. If you ask on a forum like this you will get a diverse range of viewpoints, and some mis-quoting of reality. I am a cub leader (female working as a volunteer with a mix of F & M) and currently we have about a 70/30 mix of YP M/F, but it has been 40/60 at times, and sometimes 90/10, over the last 20 years, just depends. Never been an issue tbh, but I realise my experience is limited here as have never been involved with Girl Guiding / Brownies etc. . We are very careful with tent plans on camp, and there are loads of rules about this, and leaders who are, at the end of the day, just hard working DBS checked parents who volunteer, and are trained. Just ask the question, voice your concerns, and get the answers you seek. Hope this helps, x

Sometimes I think it's more to do with the parent than the child.

I think boys should have a single sex option too. Brownies shouldn't become mixed, that's not the solution.

Lesbians are a bit more likely to be strongly tomboyish than straight women. Obviously not all lesbians, and not all straight women, this is just general patterns.

You clearly need an explanation so just ask the leader.

I notice a boy is enrolled; is that new policy, that boys can join Brownies?

I suspect that it is to do with leaders needing their own children minded some meetings.

Why have you only picked out that one tiny detail and ignored the rest of the post?

Well are either going to have to raise it with the brownie leaders, forget about it or remove your daughter from brownies. What else are you expecting people on mumnsnet to say?

Oh FFS. Of course it’s right. That’s the whole point of Brownies!!