To feel weird about Brownies because there’s a boy there?

[ElizaDolittle124]

Was invited to Brownies tonight to see my daughter do her ‘promise’. Was a bit awkward as it turns out there’s a boy in the group. Another parent turned up with a younger sibling who immediately said loudly ‘mummy why is there a boy here?’ The mum was v flustered trying to explain he wanted to join in and the child just said ‘but brownies is for girls’ until she told him to be quiet.

I just feel a bit weird that I didn’t know. The whole reason we joined brownies was for the girls only environment, which my daughter was really excited about. Feel like I should have just put her in the scouts instead now (which would have been more convenient). But my friend is one of the brownie leaders and she encouraged me by promoting the idea of a girl’s only space.

There’s a brownie camp sleepover thing next month where they sleep in dormitories. My daughter can’t go anyway as we have other plans that weekend, but it’s got me wondering how they’re going to arrange that? Surely they can’t have the boy sleeping separately in a room on his own, but equally he can’t go with the girls?

I haven't quite RTFT, so might have missed anyone else suggesting this - @ElizaDolittle124 have you asked your DD? Unless it's a huge pack, even in only 6 weeks she's probably had some sort of interaction with the other child and can give you her opinion on whether they're male or female. If they're a transgirl (bio male) I'd think it quite likely they've very firmly been told 'this is Lucy and they are definitely a girl'.

Then you decide whether to speak to your leader friend who told you it was 'all girls' and what to do next.

Admitting any boys as members is against their charitable objectives so even if they previously had a rule that allowed a special
subset of boys to join, it wasn’t in line with their charitable objectives and therefore wrong.

In addition, in allowing some boys to join but not any boy, they are unlawfully discriminating against boys who don’t claim to be girls.

I am mystified at how many people seem to be content for an organisation set up and funded to run social and educational activities for girls is ignoring their entire purpose and disadvantaging the girls they purport to help. Not to mention contributing to an abusive ideology that tells kids they can change sex and women have no rights to single sex spaces.

As a parent of daughters - it’s your job to raise the issue whether it makes you feel uncomfortable or not - because it’s your daughter who may feel uncomfortable having a boy around in that environment and it’s your job to take that feeling on not her

To make the point that they are above the law or social mores. The same type of person who thinks its ok for men to use female loos if they say they are women, because in their head they are women. They probably had a vegan cat too.

The trans activists have done huge harm to society. Now many are even claiming they can’t tell between boys and girls.

Look, post puberty yes, it's obvious. But little boys and little girls have the same shaped bodies, no secondary sexual characteristics beyond little boys tending to be slightly larger on average. People absolutely go on clothes/accessories and haircut when they don't know the child personally.

I assume you agree that nobody can tell the difference between a male baby in a white sleepsuit and a female baby in a white sleepsuit? When do you actually think that changes? To me puberty is the obvious answer but I'd be fascinated to hear what tell tale female features my little girl is clearly lacking.

The last communication I saw from Girl Guiding was that current boy members of GG could stay on meantime
I n light of the Supreme Court ruling I would be surprised if that remains the position,but we shall see

I used to get mistaken for a boy all the time before puberty (this was in the 1980s). I had short hair (which I didn't even want) and found it quite humiliating. I remember once being described as a lad while I was wearing a bright pink bloody tracksuit.

Then puberty hit and I got massive tits plus I never even hit 5 feet tall so no danger of being mistaken for a man now!

Edited to add - in case it isn't obvious I am agreeing with you!

YesSir has reiterated that but those rules were not necessarily lawful. They are against the charitable objectives and unlawfully discriminate by excluding boys that don’t claim to be girls. The off feeling is entirely appropriate imo.

https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/information-for-volunteers/running-your-unit/including-all/lgbt-members/updates-to-our-equality-and-diversity-policy/

It’s possible he was a member before 2/12/25 under previous policy of girlguiding allowing boys to join if they identified as girls.
I think girlguiding were contacting the small number of affected members. I haven’t seen anything further communicated but it doesn’t affect our groups or local area as we have never had a biological male child wanting to join. Scouting is very active near us and often more girls than boys/female leaders so perhaps any children in that position would have opted for this instead. I may have missed an update as it doesn’t affect us.

Alternative interpretation - stop teaching young girls that boundaries don't matter that they should get used to males in women only spaces if the men want to use them. Get them to understand that laws can and should be broken if it suits males.

That’s a shame for any girls you come across. Sports for example? Male advantage doesn’t just begin at puberty.

Yes, my daughter is constantly referred to as 'that boy', or people address my children as 'boys' when in fact only one of them is a boy, or talk about my 'son'. Just the other day in a café someone told her "That's the ladies, the gents is over there".

It's very understandable because she doesn't look any different to a typical boy her age! She knows her clothes and haircut (which she chose of course) don't mean she is a boy.

And I completely agree there shouldn't be boys in Brownies and it's right to raise the issue, but it's just not correct that people can tell (fully clothed) boys from girls on sight at the age of 7. Hopefully the OP had something else to go on.

Edited out as duplicate post

This is all so weird.
The OP said But my friend is one of the brownie leaders and she encouraged me by promoting the idea of a girl’s only space. Would the friend actually do that if there were a boy already in the group (as he must have been to be doing his promises)?
Either the OP is badly mistaken or this is a bit of a wind-up.
This is a new name with only a few posts on this thread.

Yes good point actually

Also, Girlguiding starts at 4 with Rainbows, and ends at 18 with Rangers, at what age do we say girls need their own spaces?
I say always and for anyone who doesn't agree there's Scouts.

And anyone who feels differently to you is weird are they?

Im taking this story with a pinch of salt.

Your daughter was excited that it was just going to be girls and didn't mention at any point that there was a boy?

Your friend is one of the leaders and highlighted the girls only aspect and didn't tell you there was a boy?

May I suggest that you ask your daughter and your friend for clarification.

It would be far better than starting a faux concerned goady post on mumsnet don't you think?

Don't worry. No more boys will be joining.

Also, Girlguiding starts at 4 with Rainbows, and ends at 18 with Rangers, at what age do we say girls need their own spaces?
I say always and for anyone who doesn't agree there's Scouts.

I'll add that my son used to attend Brownie meetings when I first started volunteering as his dad was at work and it is generally frowned upon to leave 8 year olds home alone.

@Peonies12 girls attitude survey highlights even from young age girls modify behaviour if males present.
I personally see the benefit girls get from guiding so don’t think it’s weird.
https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/globalassets/docs-and-resources/blogs-and-case-studies/gas/girlguiding-girls-attitudes-survey-2025.pdf

As an aside, I’m just wondering how many little boys in Afghanistan are banned from school or locked in the house and covered up because they’ve been mistaken for girls.

Is this claimed ‘sex blindness’ where people are unable to tell who is male and who is female just confined to the West or are there lots of little boys hidden away?

Do you think I am lying when I say that pre-puberty I used to get mistaken for a boy a lot? I don't agree with boys in girls' spaces but I consider it totally possible that OP is worried about a 7 year old girl with short hair - just going on the scant detail provided.

We have a girl in our unit who has short hair and favours a boys name over her original name. Being in a single-sex environment that celebrates being female and does cool, active stuff is particularly important to her at breaking down unhelpful gender stereotypes. Being young, people often see baggy clothes and short hair and assume "boy".

At the same age range people used to see my long-haired, slim sons and frequently assume girl. Puberty has now stopped that, but it carried on until about 11-12 until hormones make a difference.

Girl Guiding should be a single sex female organisation for its young members despite HQ's grudging acceptance under legal duress and transparent about male adult roles, or male leaders' children (if I couldn't take my sons before they were old enough to leave at home, I would have had to quit being a leader many years ago, and threatened the survival of our unit). No new male trans-girls should now be accepted, but biological girls who present with masculine stereotypes fit the current and historical remit of Girl Guiding's aims.

Agree.

It’s been years since I was a brownie but it would have definitely have come out if there was a boy there if he was actually a part of the group, not been a shock after 5-6 weeks at a ceremony.

I would think it would have come up at some time just by asking daughter how the meetings were and what they did if OP wasn’t going in with her or someone else was dropping daughter off.