To move pre-schools again: Third in two months?

[LittleMissOverthinks]

Long time lurker, I've signed up just to get some perspective with this!

My 3yo started pre-school in November. She's a very sensitive child who has never been left with anyone before and I spent a lot of time trying to find somewhere with lots of outdoor time and a flexible settling in routine so I could step back gradually.

I found what seemed to be a very lovely setting on first impression but was quickly made to feel unwelcome and like they were hiding something. (Day two, thirty minute visits.)

The first time I left, my child was happily playing, but when I collected a short time later she was inconsolable and said that the teacher had shouted at her and not let her join snack. I asked to speak to the manager, assuming a misunderstanding had occurred, but she admitted she had got angry as my child hadn't joined in with tidy up time (due to being overwhelmed and scared and unsure what was happening.) This was her first time away from me and I was shocked at how harsh the manager had been and realised there was no coming back so we left.

We've since signed up to a new one which is attached to the school we hope to get in 2027. The staff are much nicer but my daughter isn't at all happy to play away from me, and nice as they are, they're very hands off with all the children.

The garden is rarely open, and when it is, there's nothing set up to explore so it's quite dull. They aren't getting to know her and even when I've stepped out the room for half an hour, I've watched through a little viewing bit and she just stands alone and doesn't play. The children are happy and sweet but mainly just make their own fun. I'm not entirely against this as it encourages creativity and independence I suppose, but there are two new nurseries from a big branch that have opened locally a bit further from us and I'm considering changing again. One is a forest school with a ratio of one staff to four children and would be a calmer environment and my daughter loves being outdoors and would always choose that if possible.

My concern is the confusion I'll likely cause with being moved again, the fact that the children in the current preschool will eventually be mostly going up to the reception year with her so she'd have friends, and the worry that I'll just find some other fault with the next one we try.

Aibu to move her again so quickly or should I keep searching until we find one that clicks?

You need to bite the bullet and leave the nursery completely. Yes there will be tears but she will get used to it.

I say this as a mum who had 2 attached kids out of 3 even though they were in daycare from a year old. Every morning until reception they cried at drop off but soon settled once I left.

I have worked in a school nursery, and in the 5 years I worked there we only had one child that never settled.

Children will take time to settle, it’s natural but as parents we expect it to be faster than it actually is. It normally takes a couple of months for a child to settle in a nursery, especially if it’s the first time away from you. It’s a new environment, lots of new children, different expectations and getting to know new adults takes a lot.

Staying with a nursery linked to school often makes the transition to reception much easier, your daughter will have children and possibly staff she’ll already have met.

Drop your daughter off, say bye and don’t watch. She will be fine and will settle, just accept it will take time.

Ahh op I sympathise. I am a reception teacher and have been horrified by the standard of early years provision local to me. Very little outdoor play, pushing formal phonics and worksheets as young as two etc. Doing 'forest school' which turns out to be collecting a couple of leaves on the playground. For what it's worth I've just managed to get mine in to my schools nursery and it's amazing, so so glad I moved.

If you want her to go to that school id leave her but if not children are resilient, it's worth looking around at least.

I haven't read all the replies as some are really upsetting.

I moved my DTs to a third setting. We tried for 6 weeks at the first two. One i picked as I knew others who used it, some from there would be going to the same primary, nice outdoor space. My twins just couldn't settle. I stayed for half an hour at first. Staff tried to make a bond with them. No luck. They'd ring me to collect quite quickly as they would be distraught and one vomiting repeatedly. Similar at another.

Both boys had quite significant separation anxiety. One due to reflux and anxiety, the other likely learnt from his twin but also harder to understand so maybe found it harder from that perspective?

I started them at a third pre school. They were known to be very good wirh children with separation anxiety. They met me and my children and I took a step away from my boys to demonstrate the problem. They were fantastic, explained to me the boys needed to feel safe with a key person, arranged me to come 2 pr 3 times a week. At first, a key person watched me play with my boys. Then they joined in when my boys were comfortable enough, then I sat and watched them play, then I began leaving the room. The whole process took 8 weeks. My boys then had a smooth transition to primary (not that school ironically). They are nearly 15 4 now. Well adjusted, doing really well at a grammar school. Happy to get the bus independently, stay at a friend's house overnight etc.

All this not forcing children to be uncomfortable and leave them crying for years (!?) and ignoring distress or you're weak. Urgh, no thanks.

So I'd actually say do whatever you think will work best for your daughter, build her confidence, let her have fun.

And it's nice to know someone when you start school, but maybe she could just do a day a week at the school one later if it doesnt work out for her now.

My children all did a half day a week at the primary they went to, as they did a pre school afternoon one afternoon a week from November to June for the children hoping to start in the September (small rural primary) plus a different pre school.

Who says leave children crying for years? The school nursery my son attends callee me after an hour last week because he wasn't settling. They don't leave kids crying that long.

I personally just walked out, whether she was screaming or not. My youngest was fine the minute she couldn’t see me any more.

This isn’t true!! A good early years practitioner will observe and then extend the play. Of course they play with children!

OP, give her a while to settle, but the outdoor area sounds a bit rubbish to be honest. There should be plenty to do out there, even in January. 🤨

Hi op why are you still there after 4 weeks you’re probably hindering her time there. It’s you who has to walk away then at collection time you ask how she’s been. If she knows your just outside she won’t settle she needs to play and enjoy her time there but you popping in and out isn’t helping her. Honestly let her be.

I asked to speak to the manager, assuming a misunderstanding had occurred, but she admitted she had got angry as my child hadn't joined in with tidy up time

I'd like to clarify.

Did she actually use the words, "I got/was angry," because, if she did, then I hope you took it further.

I would be very concerned about a childcare worker who became 'angry' at such a young child for such a trivial reason so soon after starting.

If it was just hyperbole, I wish people wouldn't do that on threads about schools/nurseries because people end up responding to events that didn't actually occur.

Being angry at a 3 year old would be concerning. Issuing an age appropriate consequence would be reasonable.

Any tips for how I leave? I go out to the little parent area so she knows I'm nearby, and if she lets me go without screaming I've been offering a treat on the way home, but since Christmas that isn't working and she just begs me to stay! I'm happy to leave if she's playing but it seems so mean when she's clearly scared and uncomfortable!

Once she is in and safe, it is better to just leave.

Children receive mixed messages when parents hang around because, in the child's eyes, their parent might take them home if they're still there. That doesn't mean they don't like it there. Just that home is familiar and comfortable and mummy is there.

In reality, it's a bit 'out of sight; out of mind' and, once parents have gone, children usually settle very quickly and are easily consoled by their teacher/key worker.

Obviously, some children don't settle at all and it might just be the wrong time for them.

It is really distressing when your child is that upset but I've never seen a child personally who hasn't settled within a few mins at most.

To add, the best early years settings I’ve seen encourage some stay and play sessions with parents before a gradual settling in process. Some children don’t even give their parents a backwards glance; some need to repeatedly “check in”. By the time they have to be left alone there, they are happy and settled. I agree that you go and come back and that’s how she’ll learn to get on with things in life.

I’m sorry to hear the first setting wasn’t a success. Sadly, this probably made your daughter a little more hesitant to throw herself into the new setting you’re concerned about. But moving isn’t going to show her that nursery is a safe and fun place. She probably just needs time to build relationships with the adults and kids around her.

You asked about leaving and trying to make it easier. Again, these things can take time but there are various tricks I’ve seen that I’ve used with my kids.

• Books like ‘the invisible string’ discuss always being connected to people you love. I think it’s really important to do a lot of prep/discussion away from school about being apart and stories can help those conversations.
• Stamp your hand and hers and say it connects you when you’re apart. A physical symbol that reminds her of you could help her feel closer to you.
• validate her feelings if she says she misses you/is sad. Say it’s hard to be away from people you love. Trying to see ‘the bright side’ immediately can confuse kids as they don’t feel heard. Tell her you miss her too and your favourite thing is coming to get her and hearing about what she’s done.
• reassure her anytime you leave her (at school or with your partner (or anyone else)) that “mummy always come back”. Then say it at drop off every day. Keep it as part of a short goodbye - “I love you. Mummy always comes back”.
• Say you have a mini her in your heart and she has a mini mummy and daddy in hers. You’re always there loving her even if she can’t see you. Again, talk about this away from school. She may want other tiny people in her heart - my DS, for example, says it about his grandparents sometimes too.
• finally, don’t hang around. She needs to know you believe she can do it. You hovering isn’t going to make her feel like she’s ’got this’. So have your goodbye ready, give her a big hug and then leave. Most kids do way better once they’re left to it!

Obviously you don’t have to use all of this - they’ll be some she responds to more than others. I use a couple of these with my DS (who started preschool in September aged 3.5) and he seems to have settled really well.

I think swapping settings again could be much more damaging to her confidence and you need to give it more time and have some really consistent messaging so she knows that you always come back. And when you pick her up, don’t let her get even a whiff of your worries that she’s not settling! Say something about a cool toy you spotted or how you overheard her teacher saying how great she was at something. Really try and paint her school as this amazing place full of friendly people and exciting toys!

I think trust your gut OP but will add it takes most pre schoolers 4 to 6 weeks to settle in to a new term/new school in my experience.
MY DS went to creche part time at 3 and never settled - cried at drop off every morning at 18m.....everyone told me it was normal and he'd grow out of it but he didn't
At 2yo I moved him to a montessori pre school which he hated. Cried every morning - they didn't like him and, it was a horrible experience and the wrong setting for him. After 4 months I moved him to a small pre school - 8 kids per class, 2 teachers and he went in on his first day never looked back and had a brilliant time. Unfortunately they only catered up to age 4 so the. I moved him a few months later to a preschool adjoining a main school and he loves it. So 4 moves in 12 months. In the right setting you DD will thrive - if you think this isn't it then consider moving

I did say that they play if the child asks them to.

Maybe I didn't explain it well. What I mean is that staff won't eg set up a tea party and put children on chairs around the table and have them take part. They will set it up and suggest to children that they play but if they choose not to, they won't force it.

They won't make children join in if they don't want to and they gently nudge rather than make the play happen - unless a child wants the adult to play.

I'm really just responding to OP wondering why her daughter doesn't seem to be playing with staff. If daughter has made it clear she doesn't want to, they won't force it.

Leaving quickly but for a short amount of time is better for settling than her staying longer but with you hanging around, in my experience (20 years... scary how old that makes me lol)

Op, is nursery attached to a private school? The first one? We settled on one just like this but now I am worried it might be too late as they only take from 3! I just got back to work and we opted for a nanny instead. They do daily morning activities, music, art, swimming, messy play etc and then have the afternoons to themselves. I think it may just depend on your child. I have a sociable one (who is a bit younger than yours. I would probably not move her. Unless your gut is telling you it’s not right, leave her to settle.

I sent my kids to two nursery’s at same time- couple mornings in the one attached to their school and one I liked

You are the issue as hard as that is to hear

At this age is normal each kid to play on their own or along each other but not with each other if that makes sense. It can take a while- especially since you’re stepping back very very slowly.

Some are free play. Doesn’t sound very exciting. If it is attached to the school I’d leave her for now, explain to her that teacher wants her to follow the rules. Some children read faces with much more fear than others, give it them, if she’s really attached to you, she’ll find it difficult to settle anywhere.
She’s probably feeding off you anxiety too.

Could splitting provisions be an option depending on how many days she is going? Treat the forest school one as a one/two day club...
I have to say my experience of nursery is different ours have a small outdoor area, this week they got them bundled up and went to local cultural attraction, they do bubble water play in the garden, wellies puddle suits, walks outside, trips to care homes etc,

They guide DC and help them understand how to facilitate play

We did nursery from the age of 1 so very different ages to settle in, having this pre time with possible class mates seems like a good opportunity but just checking re the school....our local one is 'outstanding' and that would have been our preschool choice but when actually looking at the school....firm no. But if you've done your school tours in your local area then fair enough.

Ask to talk to her key person. Give them a crib sheet on your child .... can she bring her a favourite item in every day... can you do facepaint before hand... what is she like when someone else does drop offs....even now 3yrs in my DC gets upset leaving me, it's the separation either at home before GP take her to nursery or at the setting when I do

We made up magic routine, special cuddle, kiss, bumps etc, she has special toys waiting in the car every day to pick her up, we did a walk to and from setting to have that chatty outside time before and after ....

Just throwing a few things out there, good luck x

I used to work at a nursery school and observed the children often became upset at mums leaving but they would settle down once they realised mum had finally left often with some distraction from me. She will pick up on your anxiety and the run up to you leaving will add to this. My advice is arrive say goodbye with a hug etc and try not to look concerned. Leave the building completely even if she is crying. It sounds harsh but she will settle down. I used to observe this with the children. Wish you well.

It sounds very much like you're the anxious one Op, just leave her there, if you really must, then go and sit in your car so long as its out of everyones view.

I have never worked at a nursery that's hands off. Child led certainly but staff still got involved so children's knowledge could be expanded.
OP, you need to give your daughter time to settle, especially if you are hoping she'll go to the attached school. Perhaps you can ask the staff if they can support her in playing and encourage her to mix with the other children. Even if they are hands off they should be supporting children to settle in.

It’s more important that she goes somewhere good that you have faith in, than that she has never had to move. I would never settle for a childcare I didn’t like just because I’d made the mistake of choosing the wrong one first.

A few weeks of being unsettled is better than a whole year of a childcare you aren’t comfortable with that she doesn’t enjoy.

Do a tour of the new places and see what you think of how they treat children who are having difficulty settling.

I think you should leave her in the second one and not hang around when you drop her off. She's 'not much futher.' What are you expecting? She's 3 (and presumably a PFB).
How many hours a week is she there? All three of my DC only ever attended pre-school (from 3 years old) in a morning before beginning school. It was private, but only around 500m from their primary so I knew at least 90% of DC would go on to there.
In those fifteen hours a week all I hoped for was that DC learned socialisation and a little independence. I also knew they'd then already know other DC when they took the more daunting step of beginning full-time school.
It was far more important to me that they happily mixed, played and were alright with being separated from me. I could top up any learning I felt necessary. It was the right decision.