To move pre-schools again: Third in two months?

[LittleMissOverthinks]

Long time lurker, I've signed up just to get some perspective with this!

My 3yo started pre-school in November. She's a very sensitive child who has never been left with anyone before and I spent a lot of time trying to find somewhere with lots of outdoor time and a flexible settling in routine so I could step back gradually.

I found what seemed to be a very lovely setting on first impression but was quickly made to feel unwelcome and like they were hiding something. (Day two, thirty minute visits.)

The first time I left, my child was happily playing, but when I collected a short time later she was inconsolable and said that the teacher had shouted at her and not let her join snack. I asked to speak to the manager, assuming a misunderstanding had occurred, but she admitted she had got angry as my child hadn't joined in with tidy up time (due to being overwhelmed and scared and unsure what was happening.) This was her first time away from me and I was shocked at how harsh the manager had been and realised there was no coming back so we left.

We've since signed up to a new one which is attached to the school we hope to get in 2027. The staff are much nicer but my daughter isn't at all happy to play away from me, and nice as they are, they're very hands off with all the children.

The garden is rarely open, and when it is, there's nothing set up to explore so it's quite dull. They aren't getting to know her and even when I've stepped out the room for half an hour, I've watched through a little viewing bit and she just stands alone and doesn't play. The children are happy and sweet but mainly just make their own fun. I'm not entirely against this as it encourages creativity and independence I suppose, but there are two new nurseries from a big branch that have opened locally a bit further from us and I'm considering changing again. One is a forest school with a ratio of one staff to four children and would be a calmer environment and my daughter loves being outdoors and would always choose that if possible.

My concern is the confusion I'll likely cause with being moved again, the fact that the children in the current preschool will eventually be mostly going up to the reception year with her so she'd have friends, and the worry that I'll just find some other fault with the next one we try.

Aibu to move her again so quickly or should I keep searching until we find one that clicks?

Have you discussed your worries with the nursery? It sounds as if you are still at the stage where you are mostly there with her. If so (and there's nothing wrong with this as such) then it's not very surprising that in the odd half hour you have stepped out of the room, she has just stood and watched the others. A confident child might be straight in there, but a more sensitive/observant type of child may well need more time to look around and get used to being there alone before joining in. I would try discussing with her keyworker how they can help manage the transition and help her to get started without you by engaging her in an activity she enjoys. They sound nice, if a little hands off. Ask them about the garden too!

She knows you’re hanging around and offering treats etc. drop and go. She will settle. I think you’re making it much more anxious for her too.

As hard as it is, peeping through the parent area and running back in at the slightest murmur is probably making it harder for both of you. Nothing is going to happen to her, she’s safe. Time to be brave and just leave. I know it’s hard but sometimes children get upset, it’s how they learn resilience. The staff will take over in your absence. You being there immediately on tap will be prolonging things and making her more insecure in the
long run. Every new parent goes through this and when/if it’s a second child you won’t even bat an eyelid at this.

It will take a bit of time to see what suits her but I will tell you the higher staff ratio sometimes just means they don’t get to figure things out themselves a bit more which sounds crazy but being left to it within reason can be great for them

Anxiety feeds anxiety and your anxiety is spreading over into her (trust me I speak from experience)

Getting how you handle it correctly
is quite literally half of not more the battle. You need to be calm, light, positive but overly so it comes across as false. And then just leave and see what happens.

this halfway house doesn’t help anyone

Agree with PP. You just need to say "mummy will see you later at pick up time" and head out. You hanging round for 4 weeks isn't making it any better. Most of us just have to get on with it because we're headed off to work. Both of mine had a couple of settling in sessions without me and then we're in their full days after that. I wasn't loitering around watching them I was enjoying a couple of hours of free time!

With regards to outdoors time, it's easy to get one child ready for a play outdoors, less easy to get 25 children ready in January when the weather is likely to be cold, wet and changeable. It's not surprising they are indoors a lot, it'll likely change as the spring arrives and it gets warmer.

I wonder if you’re unintentionally adding to her anxiety because she knows you’re just outside of the room.
I agree with pp to just rip the plaster off and go with a cheery, ‘Mummy is just popping to the shop and I’ll be back in a bit’. Yes she’ll probably be upset and may be for a little while yet but as long as you keep coming back for her, she’ll soon realise it’s fine. You need to give her a chance to find her feet I think.

I think it's fine to move her again.

Without trying to being rude (sorry typing fast)

1. Does she ever play without an adult
2. Are you being a bit Precious First Born or oversupportive about her?

Asking because you say you bribe her with treats when she's sad and you hover nearby and want to ease her in super slow. These aren't the luxuries of working parents where kids just have to adapt so I'm getting the sense that you're lookong for a home from home setting rather than nursery. Which exists to some extent but maybe you need to pay extra and use less often? Or send her more ofter for shorter periods?

What experience does she have if making her own fun and playing with other littlest or baby groups?

My dd was like this (she’s 21 now and just graduated uni), I moved her from her first nursery after a similar issue, I went to collect her and she was indoors crying whilst everyone else was outside playing. 2nd nursery was hard work to begin with, dd struggled with the other children and cried a lot when I left her, I stuck it out and eventually she settled. My dd was diagnosed with ASD when she was 3, socialising with children was hard for her through nursery and school. I don’t think it would have made a difference what nursery she was in or how much outside time there was, she just needed longer to settle and find her place. I would stick it out a bit longer, if you keep moving her it will only make her anxiety worse?

You need to step away for the whole session, multiple times, give her time. You have never left her so it will take her time to get used to interacting with other dc rather than you. The staff will be hands off, they let dc play together and it’s middle of winter so the garden is not going to be used much.

My daughter was peeled from my arms for the first 2 weeks of nursery at 2, put down upset for the following 4 weeks and the ran in after that. She is definitely one of those children that likes to sit back and understand what is going on before jumping in.

I sat in the car for 20-30 minutes for the first day or two and then phoned the nursery to see if she was ok after I left. Her key worker made sure to do something 1 on 1 with her for that first bit of the day off. After the first week she had breakfast there and that seemed to help as it was something consistent she had as soon as she got to nursery.

We did 6 settling in sessions over two weeks where she went from being clung to me to sitting calmly on my lap to playing next to me to me being able to sit in the reception area. I wouldn't be looking for her to be waltzing happy as can be if she started off very upset but would be looking if week on week there are glimmers of improvement.

It was a child focussed play setting but it was very orchestrated. They had a various tables of activities laid out each morning. They had a counter type thing that would spend a month as a post office or a ice cream shop or a drs surgery. I saw them respond to the children during the settling in sessions. One kid walked over to the painting station so the staff member followed, put a bib on them and asked them what colour paint they wanted. They then sat back and let them play with the paint. It was a balance between enabling the children to play how they wanted but setting up a room that gave suggestions on what play might look like and facilitating the play.

Give it time… I’d also advise that forest nursery isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. Had to pull mine quite quickly. He loves being outside but not all day and in all weathers and the staff were not the best.

Sorry just to clarify OP but 4 weeks in are you still remaining on site when she's there? I actually think you need to properly go, otherwise she'll spend the whole time just waiting for mummy to come back.
Tbh you fairly urgently need to work on independence with her otherwise she's going to really struggle with school next year.
Before starting preschool did you talk about it all really positively and explain how she would stay and have fun with the other kids while mummy popped to get some boring jobs done? And that mummies aren't allowed to stay because it's for the children to have fun together?

It's a mistake to always be reassuring her mummy is close by /staying. Mummy can't always stay or be close by, much better that she starts to learn there are places she is safe and can be happy without mummy there?

When she starts school you'll be lucky if they let you cross the threshold of the classroom door past the first week, children don't settle when a parent is hovering

I think it is harder than people like to make out it is.

My DD started nursery for three days a week when she was 12 months old. She really struggled and would cry so much and literally have to be peeled away from me. I did it, because I have to work, but it was bloody horrible leaving her crying and I can quite see that if you don’t have to it feels cruel.

I do think it’s worth ‘just leaving’ because it does help but I do really sympathise. I used to turn up to work in tears as well.

That's why I'm so glad my DS goes to a childminder instead of a nursery. Kids need that interaction, it's a sad state of affairs that that's how it is now

Preschool is preparing them for school. The children can't be expected to have constant one to one attention in reception so best to get them prepared for it.

The staff at this preschool probably focus on the other kids because their mums aren't hovering getting in the way? Usually by age 3 children want to play with other children, not adults. If anything they find it a bit boring 1 on 1 with an adult with no other kids around.

There’s really no reason to be judgemental like this. There are pluses and minuses to every childcare option (well obviously leaving aside children who are being neglected etc) and a preschool setting has plenty of positives as does a childminder. It’s important for children who are going to be at school to have the opportunity to play with other similar aged children without adult interference. It’s lovely to interact with adults too but nothing is inherently wrong with how preschools tend to step back and have child led interactions.

Everyone follows the EYFS whether or not it’s a childminder or a setting. Child led means they make choices and the adult supports them not that the children are ignored!

@Arran2024 that isn’t how nurseries should be working. The need for constant written observation is much reduced than under a previous framework

Thats not what child led means, and no good nursery or childminder will ignore children. It’s more about letting children set the pace. I’m going to a forest playgroup with DD this morning. I’m taking her but she’ll decide which activities she goes to. No childcare setting is any one thing: they either provide a high quality standard of care or they don’t.

I have experience of parents like you making it harder. She will sense your anxiety and that's making it more difficult for her. And the fact she knows you're still hanging around outside, of course she won't settle down and play. She wants you to come in and take her.

It's OK for her to cry for a bit and then she will get over it. If you move her, I think she's just going to keep going with the crying and hope you keep her at home. Then when she starts school it will be traumatic and difficult for her. I had a little girl who cried every day for about 30 seconds, it almost was a habit - but she was so happy after the 30 seconds.

The best thing for her is to leave her to settle for a month. Can you ask staff to play with her for the first 10 minutes or quietly read a book, whatever she likes. This is what we do, to get them settled. Maybe watch what she's doing when you arrive to pick her up not when you're leaving. Give her a toy from home for comfort and maybe draw a little heart on her arm to remind her you love her and you will be back soon. Drop her like all the other children, don't draw out the anxiety of being left by hanging around. It's the worst thing you can do and I've never seen it help a child settle, just makes it so much harder for them.

She will settle and be fine soon. Going up to big school in the same environment and with ready made friends it's going to be wonderful for her rather than a huge transition if she's a sensitive child.

I think you need to give it more time, so I voted YABU. Having said that - If i could get my little into a forest school, I ABSOLUTELY would (just unsure why you didn't choose that one in the first place if you feel like it would be the best fit?!) IF you do decide to switch again, be prepared to stick to it. All this chopping and changing isnt really great for your little one. (And p.s - my little one is also sensitive and shy and at first played alone. My mumma heart was in pieces! I cried a lot in those first weeks! But they do find their way. They just need time.) Good luck! x

Agree about forest nursery. My youngest loved it - but on reflection, keeping him in it right up until starting school really wasn't great preparation for the school environment and he had a tricky Reception year adapting to the classroom.

You’re literally stunting your child’s development. She will be absolutely fine if you leave her to it.