To move pre-schools again: Third in two months?

[LittleMissOverthinks]

Long time lurker, I've signed up just to get some perspective with this!

My 3yo started pre-school in November. She's a very sensitive child who has never been left with anyone before and I spent a lot of time trying to find somewhere with lots of outdoor time and a flexible settling in routine so I could step back gradually.

I found what seemed to be a very lovely setting on first impression but was quickly made to feel unwelcome and like they were hiding something. (Day two, thirty minute visits.)

The first time I left, my child was happily playing, but when I collected a short time later she was inconsolable and said that the teacher had shouted at her and not let her join snack. I asked to speak to the manager, assuming a misunderstanding had occurred, but she admitted she had got angry as my child hadn't joined in with tidy up time (due to being overwhelmed and scared and unsure what was happening.) This was her first time away from me and I was shocked at how harsh the manager had been and realised there was no coming back so we left.

We've since signed up to a new one which is attached to the school we hope to get in 2027. The staff are much nicer but my daughter isn't at all happy to play away from me, and nice as they are, they're very hands off with all the children.

The garden is rarely open, and when it is, there's nothing set up to explore so it's quite dull. They aren't getting to know her and even when I've stepped out the room for half an hour, I've watched through a little viewing bit and she just stands alone and doesn't play. The children are happy and sweet but mainly just make their own fun. I'm not entirely against this as it encourages creativity and independence I suppose, but there are two new nurseries from a big branch that have opened locally a bit further from us and I'm considering changing again. One is a forest school with a ratio of one staff to four children and would be a calmer environment and my daughter loves being outdoors and would always choose that if possible.

My concern is the confusion I'll likely cause with being moved again, the fact that the children in the current preschool will eventually be mostly going up to the reception year with her so she'd have friends, and the worry that I'll just find some other fault with the next one we try.

Aibu to move her again so quickly or should I keep searching until we find one that clicks?

If I were in your position I think I’d be very tempted to trial the forest school. The staff should be engaging your child if she’s just standing on her own for thirty minutes, gently encouraging her to join others or do an activity, generally getting to know her.

Why are you still hanging around after 4 weeks? Are you sure this isn’t more of a you problem than a nursery problem?

At this stage going back after Christmas will be like starting again at day one
does a place at this nursery guarantee a place at the school?

@LittleMissOverthinks when you say your DD has never been left with anyone else before, do you mean outside the family?

You’re enabling her behaviour and passing on your anxieties.

Stop hanging around when you’ve dropped her off. Be cheerful and quick. “Mummy will see you later on, have so much fun playing.” and go.

None of the waiting to see if she cries, offering treats etc. just go.

It certainly seems like this is an accurate description of the issue. You need to leave her, poor thing has no clue what is happening because you're hovering. The fact you're still there weeks later is why she's finding it so hard to settle.

Just wave a cheery goodbye and leave. Hanging around does no one any good. What will you do when they start school?

I would have done the same as you re the first preschool but I think you should give the second one a chance.

By you being there, she knows you’re there. You’re making this harder for her.

You’re doing your child a disservice by prolonging the drop off by hanging around. You need to be very brisk - “OK DD, nursery time. Have fun with your friends and I’ll see you later, love you” is all that’s needed. A quick hug and off you go. Yes she will cry, but not for long. Don’t offer her ‘treats’ for not crying FFS! All that will do is show her that she can earn treats by doing something that should be expected anyway - it’s a poor way of encouraging the behaviours one expects.

Agree with all previous comments. You need to try and stick with the current pre school as this contains her future classmates (unless you are now rethinking schools) and maybe she just takes longer to settle. Is the preschool actually linked to the school? As if it is there will be overlaps with routine and staff, so she will hopefully find that transition easier. Also where I work the nursery children are sometimes included in whole school events, so again a good transition and seeing the bigger picture.

What are you doing when she is at pre school? If she knows you are home and missing her then this will feed into her wanting to leave and not go at all. From your description it sounds like you are staying which is quite unusual. In my workplace the nursery parents queue to drop off and this is at the door, staff take the child in and assist them hanging up their bags and coats, parents do not enter the nursery at all. There is no room for a parent to be loitering around or for a child to be looking out and seeing mummy still standing there. Even in KS1 we take the approach of taking a child from a parent if they are refusing to come in (parent will say you need to go in/I need to go now, and if still clinging on we will check it's ok to assist and then take the hands of the child and take them into the classroom which parents appreciate).

It does sound like you are enabling the behaviour which may be because you miss her too, in which case can you find something to do while she is at nursery (sorry if wrong but the impression I get is you aren't doing this to go off to work).

you need to actually leave the building.
if she knows you’re nearby she won’t settle.

The problem is that you kept her too close to you for three years. Now she has to learn function on her own. Of course it will take time.

I agree you need to leave at drop off. The longest I stayed was if my child was wearing boots and needed to change them. Apart from that I said a quick goodbye at the door and left. My kids settled on day 2, apart from my youngest who settled the first day. They where 3 and in a school nursery, It was the first time I'd left any if them

The garden should be open. Ofsted want indoor and outdoor to be free flow. Parents should be told to bring hats and gloves etc
Leave asap. Cuddle and kiss then go. The longer you stay the worse it is!

Your main job is to raise an independent adult. This starts now. Of course it is very hard to leave your DD behind at nursery especially as you see she is not entirely settled. But she can't find her own way with you hanging around.
Drop her off and just go and do whatever you need to do whilst you have those few child free hours.
I don't think giving her a treat at pickup time for being 'good' at drop off is a great idea. It's a long time for a 3 year old to make the connection. And you can't really reward emotions. If she feels like crying because she is unsettled when you leave, then she simply needs to express that emotion. Not stop it for the promise of a treat later in the day. But you can re-frame it: we now go to nursery, you'll have so much fun, then I pick you up and today we do x after nursery or I bring you x treat (stickers for example, not food, I don't think food should be a reward for children, food is fuel not a treat).
Just let her be herself and trust the process. You need to remove yourself from the premises as soon as you drop her off.
Have you taken her to any parent and toddler groups or toddler specific classes where you are present throughout but she has the opportunity to explore the place and be around other children in a free range but safe setting? It might help her and help you as well.
At this age children don't interact directly with other children as much as you envisage but they would usually get on with an activity alongside other children or independently.
You just need to give it time and re-evaluate the situation in a couple of months after a clear routine has been implemented.
The forest school sounds lovely but I wouldn't move her now because there's a big chance she will settle here. You did very well to move her from the first nursery.

Agree with everyone else that you just need to leave her and stop hovering.

I had three children go through a pre-school where I was on the parent committee. Two of my kids skipped in no bother with no tears. The other took longer to settle. But I saw a LOT of parent drop offs during my years at the preschool and the absolute worst thing is the anxious parent who hovers, and prolongs the whole situation - bye, bye, be good, don't cry, mummy's here, mummy loves you, bye, bye, see you later.... All that achieves is teaching the child there is something to be concerned about.

Take her in. Coat off, into the main play area - oooh look, there's a jigsaw. You do that and mummy will be back later. Bye.

And leave.

Kindly, you're making it worse by staying. I have a sensitive DS too, that started a new playschool after being off with me for a year when his DS was born. He was very shy & nervous going in to playschool, but settled within a month.

I make a big deal of him wearing his bag from the car to the classroom. He helps me hang up his coat and bag, carries his water bottle in and pops it with the others. We say good morning to his teachers together - it took a while to get him to speak when we started, but I always asked and modelled the behaviour. I always go straight up to his key worker, and say " X had a lovely afternoon yesterday, they got a new digger!" Or some other titbit about their day. Then I give a big hug and kiss, say "mummy is going now, mummy will come back after evening snack time. Mummy loves you." Give his teacher a nod and she'll start asking about what I told her as I head out.

When I pick him up, I keep it positive - "I'm so happy to see you!" Instead of "I missed you"

I also try not to quiz him about his day, as that can make them anxious.

I helped him practice asking people to play with him through play as well, with his little trucks.

I know it’s really hard to leave them when they’re upset but this isn’t going to get any better while you keep dragging it out. I promise the biggest issue is that you are giving her loads of mixed messages - nursery is fine but also I’m going to hover for when you’re sad. You’ll have fun but also if you pretend not to be upset you’ll get a treat. I am going but also I’m right here. That’s a lot for her to work though and very confusing.

new year is a good time for a reset. No more hovering, no more in and out and changing, just stick to it and get through this rough stage. She’s had no way to get ready for this since you’ve been with her for 3 years so she needs to go through everything most kids realise as babies when she’s old enough to find it all much harder. She has to learn that you’ll always come back, that there’s fun to be had with other people and that other adults can be trusted.

Be positive and breezy, say have a lovely time and leave her. She has to find her own way here and learn how to make friends and have fun without you. I agree you watching is not a good idea. Enforce how much fun they seem to have etc.

Tips to leave. Walk it bright and cheerful and say Morning Mrs T and what activities are set up Sophie let’s got a see - oh wow painting - when I come back and see you at the end of the sessions / day you can tell me all about what you have done - you are going to have so much fun and tell me about it later. Give me a kiss and huge wave from the window. Go around to the window beaming wave and drive round the corner and cry your eyes out. That’s what I did. I found if I told them how many friends they would make etc they did on pick up I said tell me the best thing you did today. (Many many times my youngest said the jacket potato). 😂tell children they are going to enjoy it and have fun. Make sure they don’t pick up on your negativity. I hated Art at school my Art teacher told me I was crap early and so I hated it. But I took them to the Works - let them make a mess at home. Took them to crafting things and Art exhibitions etc and then boom found myself 10 years later painting

I was responding to the idea the OP has that the nursery setting is inappropriate because she doesn't see staff playing with the children. She says that staff are "hands off with the children" and "the children make their own fun" and I'm just pointing out that this is kind of normal. I just think OP's expectations from nursery might be unrealistic.

OP if she has separtation anxiety, you could discuss with your GP. The sooner you address the concerns, the better. You wont be able to charge primary school that easily if things get difficult
at home, do you play hide and seek with your DD? the game is all about separation and being reunited.
also do talk to her about how hard it feels to be far away from mummy and that you understand that but this is ok, you will both manage to be separated for a little while

I fully appreciate that we're talking about a 3 year old here, but to coin a Mumsnet phrase, you need to drop the rope. All this hovering and fretting isn't helping anybody, positive attitude, in we go, bright and breezy "have a lovely time" and leave.

If you think she'd enjoy the forest school, you could always add it in as an extra, but having 'friends' form preschool to go to primary with is really helpful.

In the kindest way, you hanging around isn’t helping. She knows you’re there and she also knows if she screams and cries you’ll take her home. You need to step back and let her settle in properly. My DD cried everyday for 2 years at drop off. I think it was habit! As I worked full time there was no option for me to hang around and wait for her to settle down. The staff assured me that she stopped crying the second I left the building. They even told me to peep through the window from the car park to see her. They were right, she was all smiles. And when I went to pick her up she was all smiles too. I know it’s hard but you have to stand firm and leave her there to find her way.