Should the US become involved in helping protesters in Iran?

[Ihatetomatoes]

The situation is awful there now. Should the US become involved?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2jek15m8no.amp

Explain?

The people of Iran are on the streets protesting against their regime. They want (and deserve) better.

They are being slaughtered in the streets and over 10,000 arrested. Are they not allowed to protest against their vile regime.

The US is not the world’s policeman. They need to start focusing on what’s happening in their own backyard. People are dying of fentanyl overdoses, infrastructure is crumbling, healthcare is unaffordable. Americans didn’t vote for Trump to police the world. He ran on a no more wars platform.

Iran says its really for negotiations now (BBC news following Trump's threats).

I hope the US does whatever it can to help Iranians get rid of this monstrous regime and cut off the funding for so much terrorism.

Iran was coming for a long time. The regime will fall. There is no way back from this. The momentum is too great.

The US could (and probably will) help destabilise things further by targeted, but devastating, military strikes. This would force the regime to fight on two fronts, it would create distraction and pull resources out of the current action.

It seems the US is fundamentally changing it's historical stance on foreign policy. They have pulled out of most climate/military alliances. Invaded Venezuela, will take Greenland, and now what they do next is anyone's guess.

Let’s hope the Ayatollah and his top people will negotiate themselves all the way to Russia so there can be new leadership in Iran.

I really hope the USA will help the civilian unarmed Iranian protestors who have no chance against a military regime, and deserve much better, regardless of USA’s motives.

As a Venezuelan, I welcomed USA’s intervention to help remove the head of a criminal state who persecuted, oppressed, tortured and killed my fellow citizens, and destroyed the economy plunging 80% of the people into poverty. Civil society did all we could within the legal avenues (national and international) to have a regime change, and all failed. There was no possibility of change coming from within because the regime controls everything in the state, most importantly the arms that are used against its own citizens.

That’s why more than 8 million people (third of the population) had to flee the country to avoid starvation. We know that USA is interested in the oil (we are not naive) but we are willing to pay that price for a chance, however remote, of things improving. It cannot be worse than what we have.

The US is sort-of is the world’s policeman.

There is no credible alternative one, and life without a policeman is not a life of peace. Periods where there has been a hegemon have been much more peaceful than ones where contesting powers fight it out.

Life under a Russian or Chinese policeman would not, in my view, be preferable. The UN is the epitome of realpolitik not its repudiation, and is in any case weak.

For all its faults, the US is the most humane superpower there has ever been, sees itself as at least somewhat (imperfectly) bound by norms and laws, and works (typically) in coalitions that are based partly on shared interests but mostly (and imperfectly) on shared values. Those values include the worst-except-all-the-alternatives-ever-tried hits including democracy, human rights, free markets and liberalism.

I dislike Trump becuase he’s weakening the US’s role as a fair-ish an effective-ish world policeman.

Those who oppose him because he hasn’t packed up the US’s bags altogether should be extremely careful what they wish for.

Yes this, do people really think that if the regime in Iran is overthrown that it will suddenly become a becon of democracy? No it will be replaced by the same or something worse, it creates instability in the region just as the US and UK interfered in Iraq and Afghanistan, years and years later nothing has changed they have become rogue countries, The USA and the UK are not the worlds policemen, don't get me wrong the regime in Iran is awful but no good ever comes of us trying to change things

Certainty similar arguments were advanced about Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

We really could have left those regimes in place.

Should we have?

Its up to the people of Iran what they want it replaced with. They are on the streets in their thousands protesting the current regime. Good luck to them. They'll need it if everyone sits back and watches the vast military slaughter them.

Iran do fund Hezbollah, Hamas and the Houthis and cause much terror in the region.

No of course not, but Iran isn't invading countries like the Nazis is it? They want a regime change which is fair enough but there are ways of doing it..

It’s incredible that anyone would chunter on about the ‘wicked’ US in a discussion about the (hopefully) near end of the monsters that run Iran. I mean, seriously?

Iran under the murderous crazies is a giant tumour in the Middle East. It kills and tortures thousands and thousands of its citizens, and oppresses and impoverishes all of them. It finances and directs vast terrorist networks outside its borders.

US intervention now would be obviously morally right. Whether it would be politically wise depends on what action is taken. I can’t see any likelihood of invasion. Where missiles and bombs might most effectively land is in the hands of the planners with the facts, but I’d have thought military depots and barracks would be obvious targets.

Lead with what ? As in what action ?

Tehran is about 700 miles from Qatar, the general area where there are US bases. And there is a sea between the Gulf states and Iran. There is Iraq to the East of course, an attack could be launched from there. North is the Caspian, Turkmenistan. East is Afghanistan and Pakistan.

The photo below shows Tehran. It's a mountainous country, more like Afghanistan than the flat open desert of Iraq. Iraq to Tehran is 430 miles.

It would take a massive invasion force. And Iran has almost a million troops. So it would be like doing a combined Iraq and Afghanistan invasion at the same time. More so in fact, because unlike Afghanistan, Iran has not had decades of civil war that has weakened it. It has been preparing for decades, not fighting.

I totally agree the regime needs removed. And as you say the regime is very powerful.

Military action would need a massive force.

I really do not see what a few bombs or missiles will do. Trump bombed Nigeria recently. What has that done. ISIS in Syria has been getting bombed for over a decade, and there has been a land war too. ISIS are still there.

Indeed.

The USA and the UK are not the worlds policemen, don't get me wrong the regime in Iran is awful but no good ever comes of us trying to change things

It's the people of Iran who are trying to change things but they can't do it without serious outside help.

Trump will do what he wants. The trouble is to really help he would have to put in troops and he's not going to do that, there are very limited targets he could hit in Iran without also killing civilians and they could very well use human shields to protect targets. It could well become a revolution, but who will end up in power?

Help how? How does bombing help exactly?

other ruining infrastructure and aggravating the situation. Regime change for any sovereign nation should come from within. Encourage foreign interference is a slippery slope, would you be encouraging china to be bombing and choosing irans leader?

what right to the US have over any other militarily capable country to go and bomb them? Just bizarre reasoning.

any US led regime will lack legitimacy and then be subject to the same protests. Or worse it will end up like Libya.

Yes, the amount of US and UK troops lost in Iraq was shocking and for what? Fuck all, the place is still as dangerous and rogue as ever

Your first argument was that intervening never does good. Then you remembered Hitler.

Now it seems to be that Tehran isn’t bad enough.

I agree Tehran isn’t at Germany/Japan levels.

But it subverts countries across the region and actively funds terrorism and instability: Hamas, Hezbollah, Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Bahrain, Saudi.

Where is your line for what is ‘too much’ interfering?

Yup. And after 20 odd years in Afghanistan, who is in power there now ?

Agreed, people just need to go and look at the shitshow the US/UK made of Iraq and other countries in the Middle East to see what will happen..

Iraq is noone’s idea of a success. But life expectancy is now five years longer than pre invasion and GDP is 10x higher. A significant minority of Iraqis say the invasion was on balance a good thing, especially older ones who remember Saddam.

I’m not here to say that Iraq was a good decision or well-executed. But 10x GDP is only nothing if you don’t truly grasp how bad things can be, and any intervention will look bad if you look only at the harms and not the benefits.

Iraq was a fantastic success compared to Afghanistan, that's for sure.

This.

I'm completely full of admiration for the bravery of the protesters in Iran.

I am completely baffled by the blasé duality of "OMG Trump intervened in Venezuela how AWFUL!!!" followed by "OMG why isn't Trump intervening in Iran, how AWFUL!!!" 🙄 The man can't f*cking win!